Timestamp Speaker Transcript
00:00:00.09 Tony Fowler And we're live.
00:00:02.20 Taylor Kruse Welcome back to the Cruise Elite Podcast. What's up Tony?
00:00:05.37 Tony Fowler Good morning Taylor.
00:00:07.06 Taylor Kruse Special guest in the house.
00:00:08.89 Tony Fowler Special guest special owner of the house.
00:00:09.02 Taylor Kruse Hi.
00:00:12.32 Taylor Kruse Yes owner of the house.
00:00:15.86 Tony Fowler So it looks like we've got yeah you've made it.
00:00:16.25 Taylor Kruse Alicia is here. I made it
00:00:20.45 Tony Fowler We're so excited to have you here on the podcast again for the second time.
00:00:26.20 Taylor Kruse Yes.
00:00:27.45 Tony Fowler um
00:00:27.59 Taylor Kruse We've been talking about doing this for a while. I know. We've been meaning to do it for the whole year actually. It's June.
00:00:32.76 Tony Fowler Yeah. Yeah.
00:00:33.88 Taylor Kruse Finally it lined up. was you know It took summertime and some summer school for our daughter and schedules to align and here we are.
00:00:43.07 Tony Fowler Yeah. What's up with having kids and running a business? It seems hard.
00:00:47.67 Taylor Kruse Oh my gosh. You have to be pretty adaptable. Yeah.
00:00:50.35 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:00:51.03 Taylor Kruse We actually got better at running a business when having a child. Yeah. It's interesting.
00:00:54.71 Tony Fowler Fascinating.
00:00:54.87 Taylor Kruse You have to get very efficient. Oh yeah we went from i don't really know where we should be spending our time to oh shit mode. you know Now we're now we're we're tripling our workload and you know in our output and you just need to have no choice.
00:01:03.42 Tony Fowler I guess.
00:01:10.15 Taylor Kruse I figure out how to get work done while I'm taking care of her. So I'm like writing emails in my head while taking care of her so that when I sit down I can just go.
00:01:16.12 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:01:20.44 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:01:20.57 Tony Fowler Yeah I guess when you only have a limited amount of time and resources then you want to make them count right?
00:01:26.49 Taylor Kruse Exactly. Actually but really realistically speaking when when we had our daughter it it really did light that flame for us to really figure it out. It was because that was around the time where we were starting to make some good moves in our online business was starting to come together but we still weren't sure exactly where we had to you know primarily put our time.
00:01:36.29 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:01:49.40 Taylor Kruse But yeah we figured it out and that was that definitely helped. And that was during COVID and she was staying home with us. We couldn't afford daycare.
00:01:59.26 Tony Fowler yeah
00:01:59.64 Taylor Kruse So we just traded back and forth. It was like tagger it all day long.
00:02:03.86 Tony Fowler Yeah. Like here hold the baby answer an email like switch.
00:02:04.27 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that that's the fatiguing part is the switching back and forth because you get a project started and then you just have to stop.
00:02:14.65 Taylor Kruse And then later on you've got to start again. That was the hardest for me.
00:02:18.55 Tony Fowler Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a term for that switching costs um where yeah it's like going from one task to another you have a switching costs to like kind of reset refocus find your place.
00:02:32.83 Tony Fowler Um
00:02:34.99 Tony Fowler Yeah interesting interesting. Well I mean clearly you guys have figured it out because whatever I'm seeing is that that's happening is pretty awesome.
00:02:44.86 Taylor Kruse Thank you. We're cruising now. Yeah we feel like we're in a groove the first time ever so it's really nice. Yeah it's now we we grease that groove you know over and over and over again.
00:02:53.31 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:02:54.86 Taylor Kruse It's nice to get to that point where you can be confident that you spent your time the right way you created something that others wanted and that you feel good about and now it's just little by little making it better and better.
00:03:06.92 Tony Fowler Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Well um with the addition of Alicia I think we're going to make this Q&A better and better. So I'm super excited.
00:03:15.29 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:03:17.61 Tony Fowler um I've got a bunch of questions here and i think to start I'm just going to ask the question and let you guys kind of decide who wants to jump in first.
00:03:29.98 Taylor Kruse Sure.
00:03:30.23 Tony Fowler But if there's a question that kind of makes the most sense to ask one of you directly I will. um And then you know feel free to add on to each other's um answers and and you know add nuance clarify disagree just whatever whatever you feel ah does justice to the question.
00:03:52.41 Taylor Kruse Yeah sounds great. Sounds good.
00:03:55.45 Tony Fowler Awesome. Awesome.
00:04:01.54 Tony Fowler All right. So this question is from Miss... Kowalramani. Oh Kowalramani. Are trigger point releases really helpful or damaging?
00:04:16.86 Taylor Kruse Both. Really it depends on the person.
00:04:21.11 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:04:21.56 Taylor Kruse So I can actually think of working with Taylor last year when he was having that p sciatic issue which ultimately was from the mold toxicity. But at the time we hadn't figured that out yet. And so he was begging me to like release a trigger point. Release whatever this is now because it's something is i was sure I had a like a probably was sure I had like some sort of impingement.
00:04:46.07 Tony Fowler who
00:04:46.65 Taylor Kruse So I was like press here and see what happens. And so I did even though I i knew better because it obviously was protective tension and that that he was feeling.
00:04:49.88 Tony Fowler It can feel really good right?
00:04:55.96 Taylor Kruse And so I needed him anyway in his butt. Right. And like my piriformis was like grab some needles. Just we don't need anything special. Just hammer them in there.
00:05:07.38 Taylor Kruse it was it was it was an emergency. Yeah.
00:05:10.39 Tony Fowler Yeah dire straits for sure.
00:05:11.99 Taylor Kruse Yeah. We tried it. um He was worse after. It did not go well. Yeah. He was worse significantly. So um it can really depend on what the reason for the trigger point is. if it's a protective tension then you don't really want to mess with that. and there's probably other higher order ways to get that tension to release on its own. Yeah. And and and I'll jump in and say too and any kind of... If we're calling it like a trigger point you know that is like Alicia said like a protective tension like it's there for a reason.
00:05:43.22 Taylor Kruse It might be a functional stiffness right? That's actually serving you for a reason you know a protective type of reason. To kind of go back to the question the the word used was damaging.
00:05:59.96 Taylor Kruse Now is it damaging to release a trigger point?
00:06:00.38 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:06:03.61 Taylor Kruse Eh probably not in most cases. But you know it can make you worse like my story. It can make you worse. So was i was I damaged? No. But I had really lousy reassessments. I had increased pain.
00:06:20.38 Taylor Kruse that That doesn't necessarily mean damage. It just means I had a very big threat response from trying to release something that didn't want to be released. And in my case it was one of those really weird instances where the tension the protective tension that I was feeling was coming from something completely different. It it was not a biomechanical let's say problem.
00:06:45.59 Taylor Kruse it it was a It was more inflammatory-based you know a deep gut inflammatory type thing and that was being expressed as whatever you want to call it a piriformis syndrome or a sciatica or whatever you know the nerve.
00:07:01.05 Tony Fowler I was just going to say butt pain.
00:07:02.65 Taylor Kruse Yeah yeah yeah. So so that's ah that's a good example really because ah a lot of times people are experiencing something that's going on with their internal health that is manifesting as what feels like or even sounds like a mechanical problem right? But it's it's not actually that. So yeah I mean there's...
00:07:24.09 Taylor Kruse You can have trigger points or that kind of protective tension for so many different reasons. But the important thing to remember is that usually it is a functional stiffness. And then it it makes you need to you need to ask bigger questions.
00:07:36.28 Taylor Kruse Why is this protective tension there? Why does it exist? What is the nervous system trying to tell us right? So yeah not not necessarily damaging but can certainly move the needle in the wrong direction.
00:07:53.34 Tony Fowler So i'm I'm really intrigued by this idea of protective tension. um I don't think we've used that term before on the podcast at least. um So what's going on with like why why protecting?
00:08:07.83 Tony Fowler why why Why protective and in this case? what's Where is that coming from?
00:08:11.51 Taylor Kruse so
00:08:11.99 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:08:12.15 Taylor Kruse So like the you know the threat bucket conversation right? Threat in the bucket. As we you know we're up against all these different stressors whatever they are physical ones emotional ones you name it right?
00:08:26.33 Taylor Kruse And as that stress enters the bucket and that level of threat rises in the bucket cumulatively eventually we have the spillover that's the output.
00:08:36.17 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:08:36.70 Taylor Kruse Those outputs are generally protective outputs. your Your nervous system is trying to get you to stop whatever you're doing in some way. A lot of these protective outputs are a way for the brain to try to create some sort of behavioral modification.
00:08:54.94 Taylor Kruse So that just means your brain is figuring out how to get you to stop something. Sometimes it's detention. that's going to do that. um Other times you know it it's just a protective tension in the sense that let's say this is one example of maybe several let's say stability is needed.
00:09:21.78 Taylor Kruse Is that where you were going with your thoughts? yeah that's what i was yeah thinking. Yeah can continue if you'd like. Yeah because like in Taylor's case he had a nerve that was irritated. And so the muscles that are supplied by that nerve are not necessarily going to be engaging correctly. And in some cases they're going to be inhibited inhibited.
00:09:39.77 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:09:39.83 Taylor Kruse And so if there's certain muscles inhibited that's going to create an instability and then other muscles are going to tighten up to to create tension or protect you with some tension.
00:09:39.96 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:09:51.63 Taylor Kruse Yeah it's very functional right? It's very functional. I mean if you're if you're a person that has a lack of stability let's say your neck is unstable. You've had several concussions and you know some circuitry has been thrown off with your eyes and your inner ear and um maybe your neck is not as strong as it once was. Maybe it's not responding.
00:10:14.81 Taylor Kruse you know the as quickly as it should from a stability perspective your your brain knows that. It knows that that's happening. It's doing the best it can to use the resources it has but sometimes building tension in the neck or upregulating it is a stability strategy.
00:10:32.92 Taylor Kruse and And then the tension is functional. It's helping you. So you go to somebody and you you say hey
00:10:36.27 Tony Fowler So
00:10:40.05 Taylor Kruse This hurts right here. And you know you the point to the famous spot on everybody's neck where they they have tension. Okay well I'm just gonna dig into that and release it then. And you know hop on the table you know whatever tools they use or whatever method.
00:10:55.16 Taylor Kruse And generally at first the person will feel better. It's like oh that's really yeah nice. Now I can move my head. Okay that feels a lot better I'm free. and they get up off the table.
00:11:08.24 Taylor Kruse We've talked about the table dilemma of releasing tissues in the horizontal position where the influence of gravity is completely different than when you're standing.
00:11:10.90 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:11:20.54 Taylor Kruse So now you've released tension but the person stands up starts to walk. In that process they integrate other sensory systems into moving through the world. And that tone changes again.
00:11:34.10 Taylor Kruse because it's a totally different nervous system in the vertical position while walking. And maybe the brain says hey we need that functional stability back so guess what? Upregulate it there it is again. And so the person might get five minutes 10 minutes maybe a day of relief.
00:11:55.58 Taylor Kruse Like hey my neck feels better until it doesn't. And then that process continues. And usually that's what gets people into trouble with the chronic sort of releasing behavior that eventually doesn't go well.
00:12:07.22 Taylor Kruse If you keep forcing that you're removing functional stability from the equation and eventually the output from that like the the regression will be more intense because your brain's going to say hey enough of that.
00:12:20.02 Taylor Kruse Like now I'm really going to create some behavior modification that's going to get you to stop in your tracks with you know expressing more pain or more
00:12:31.29 Tony Fowler So in the the next ability scenario um if you were to remove kind of that tension manually with trigger point release And you you still have a deficit like you said in the visual system or in the vestibular system. or So that stability is now all of a sudden all over the place.
00:12:52.33 Taylor Kruse right
00:12:52.98 Tony Fowler ah That would could then become even more threatening to the body to the brain.
00:12:57.88 Taylor Kruse it could it could yes it could yeah you know and most of my experiences because early on like when alicia and i were exploring a lot of different methods early on in the continuing education journey we we did a lot of different things a lot of release techniques stretching techniques
00:13:00.15 Tony Fowler I see. Yeah.
00:13:15.38 Taylor Kruse um used a lot of tools. you know we we We were into all that kinda. We were exploring it. We weren't sure what was right at that point. We were trying to learn and had several experiences with our own body.
00:13:29.43 Taylor Kruse In fact I'm thinking of one right now. I'll tell a quick story. So we were at a relatively popular educational course that essentially takes manual muscle testing done on a table.
00:13:42.49 Taylor Kruse In most cases some of it's standing but most of it's on the table. And through manual muscle testing you learn okay this muscle needs to be be released while this one needs to be strengthened.
00:13:53.30 Taylor Kruse And so they try to use muscle testing diagnostically to figure out okay there's your tension let's release it and then... based on the philosophy we've got to now strengthen this because you know that's involved in the what they would call relationship.
00:14:08.82 Tony Fowler I mean that sounds mechanically that makes a lot of sense right?
00:14:08.79 Taylor Kruse Okay. It does. Yeah. It is a very mechanical way to view things. Um and um Sometimes is it works okay but in our experience most of the time it it didn't it didn't work to the standard that we were hoping for. were at this course and were with the you know the best teacher who's supposed to be the most skilled. And she's you know using Alicia as a demonstration and figures out okay Alicia needs to have her scalenes released which is some a group of small muscles in the neck. No I think she was doing my upper trap.
00:14:49.98 Taylor Kruse Oh it it was strength in the scalenes. She was trying. it Remember I did like a she did like a assessment where I was walking sideways. Is that the story? you' yeah Yeah exactly. So she had me walk sideways and watch what happened with my body. And I had one arm that was swinging and one that wasn't. And so she was assuming I had a tight trap.
00:15:08.09 Taylor Kruse And so she dug into my trap and I was almost crying on the table. It was so intense. um I hated it. Yeah.
00:15:15.41 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:15:16.47 Taylor Kruse I don't remember how I reassessed you um there was sort of like a confusing reassess like oh that wasn't as spectacular as I was hoping for the audience.
00:15:27.35 Taylor Kruse Like one of those things. plus Plus Alicia was in pain then and afterwards.
00:15:31.86 Tony Fowler Yikes. Yeah.
00:15:32.59 Taylor Kruse And it wasn't it was just kind of like okay what the heck was the point of that? Like that didn't even seem like that was the relationship that she was going for. And it was experiences like that that made us start to catch on to some of this stuff. Like hmm.
00:15:47.92 Taylor Kruse It's good that that particular methodology used a form of assessment. But she was really assessing my utricle. Yeah. Which is part of the vestibular system. Yeah but she didn't know that. She didn't know that.
00:15:58.34 Taylor Kruse That's what's engaged or more active when you're making that kind of movement. And so I think what she was really seeing is I had a utricle problem um that was appearing as it's like a weird muscle tone thing.
00:16:05.38 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:16:09.98 Taylor Kruse so So what that example is is you are ah you're essentially not speaking to the high order systems that are involved with setting or calibrating that muscle tone. So that's like sometimes when I write stuff i I use the example of that's like having a problem at the grocery store with something that you bought and you're trying to fix that problem through the cashier and the cashier can only do so much
00:16:38.17 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:16:38.55 Taylor Kruse Instead you want to talk to the manager right? And and that that kind of example is generally what's happening when there is protective tension happening for a reason because the muscles are essentially slaves to these higher order things like your eyes and your inner ear.
00:16:56.92 Taylor Kruse So if you go releasing the tension in the muscle it's not dealing with the potential issue up higher. And that was just one of those classical examples. And you see that a lot. I had this happen with a client when we were still doing the stretching technique that we used to do.
00:17:13.08 Taylor Kruse um There was someone I was working with that had back pain. And I remember going after i think it was glutes and hamstrings. We were focused on stretching. And the next appointment she came in and said ah she felt great. You always feel good after the stretching. All these people felt great after stretching. That's why they paid us.
00:17:29.62 Taylor Kruse um And she came back I think a week later and told me the next day she threw her back out just bending over to put dishes away like grab dishes from the dishwasher. And at the time I was starting to like catch on to that pattern.
00:17:42.86 Taylor Kruse But if you're not aware that that can happen you'll never associate it with the technique you're using. Couldn't be the stretching. Stretching is good.
00:17:51.05 Tony Fowler The stretching was good. She felt better.
00:17:51.99 Taylor Kruse yeah Yeah. She felt great.
00:17:52.98 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:17:53.75 Taylor Kruse you You build belief systems into this stuff when you're learning a single methodology and you become over devoted to it. I mean this is what we this is what happened to us early on early on in kind of the end of our first generation of our career as I call it.
00:18:09.14 Taylor Kruse Even the beginning of the second generation when we were still working things out and trying to figure out how does applied neuroscience fit into all this stuff. ah you know you You just become over-devoted to maybe one thing and then you start through basically confirmation bias. You start believing that if something isn't working that it couldn't be related to what you're doing.
00:18:34.49 Taylor Kruse And that's how these cultish methodologies exist. Because there's so many of them right that that you know dig into people's tissue and say this is this is what you have to do to release the trigger point release the fascia release the scar tissue. And it becomes more of a belief system.
00:18:54.14 Taylor Kruse And there's less emphasis if any at all put on actual assessment. Like how is the nervous system responding to this? You have to know. right You have to know. Otherwise you you start believing stuff and making things up. And we we did all that. like i'm I'm saying we did that early on. And and you just have you know by becoming more educated and staying open-minded little by little you have these moments that you know that eventually turn into a big paradigm shift. Yeah.
00:19:24.98 Taylor Kruse you realize hey if I'm going to be good at helping people I've got to be able to test how they're responding and adjust as needed and be okay with it when it doesn't work the way you were hoping.
00:19:37.78 Taylor Kruse You just have to pivot.
00:19:40.09 Tony Fowler So even if you have the most beautiful applied neuro theory about what's going wrong with your client if your intervention is is making things worse or having no effect you might have to discard that theory or yeah yeah.
00:19:47.05 Taylor Kruse Yep.
00:19:58.54 Taylor Kruse That's right. Yeah that's right. have to base it on the person in front of you too and their behavior because you have to educate them enough to buy into doing the exercises that are working for them.
00:20:09.66 Taylor Kruse I actually think this is one of the things that really sets us apart from a lot of the other courses that you can find for continuing education because we actually consistently we always come back to what do you do when what we're teaching you is not working you know and and how do you change your thinking you know when when that happens because it's it's not always going to work and that...
00:20:09.83 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:20:39.64 Taylor Kruse When I compare that to all the things that we did over the years with continued ed never once did we ever pay for some sort of education that admitted it might not work.
00:20:51.96 Taylor Kruse And if you...
00:20:52.12 Tony Fowler So is it usually like you have to do it again or more or better?
00:20:55.28 Taylor Kruse Yep you you gotta to do it again better more harder or guess what? You don't have the skill yet. You don't have the skill you don't have the manual skill or it's the person's psychology it even goes that far. Yeah the the the cult vibe in some of these things brings you there.
00:21:09.56 Taylor Kruse it It must be the person's fault. now Now granted there are factors there right? Like if you can't get your client to comply with the practice sure you're not gonna get the same results
00:21:23.19 Taylor Kruse But when when you are doing that thing harder and harder hoping for a different result
00:21:30.57 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:21:31.64 Taylor Kruse and the results aren't aren't coming then you know it's a lot of times people get blamed. They get blamed for that. And so I think that's one of the things that that's one of the things I love about using applied neuroscience is it respects the fact that everybody is different and it's not always gonna go the way that you want to go. And and when you run into those roadblocks
00:21:56.25 Taylor Kruse You have to understand the thinking model and be able to pivot you know in some way to to help somebody. But there's also so many options. like You have so many options of different types of inputs that something's going to work eventually.
00:22:10.66 Taylor Kruse Yeah that's right.
00:22:10.89 Tony Fowler Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:14.94 Tony Fowler Yeah. I think ah one of the difficulties that I've sort of experienced in trying to grapple with this stuff but you've mentioned as well on the podcast Taylor is ah you know being overwhelmed with the options.
00:22:26.71 Tony Fowler Like where do you begin?
00:22:26.74 Taylor Kruse Yeah that's right.
00:22:28.18 Tony Fowler There's you know someone's presenting with a problem and you've just got like there's like a million things you could try you know?
00:22:34.52 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:22:35.29 Tony Fowler um So how do you narrow it down? But
00:22:37.14 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Our students express that a lot. And we just try to keep we we do have a process right? That we try to keep pushing people to understand that process.
00:22:43.43 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:22:46.93 Taylor Kruse And these are the tests you run initially. This is where you you begin and you use a fix what you find mentality. And um you use the information you're getting in the moment to to start the process.
00:22:59.48 Taylor Kruse right. and and And then you let the response from what you're doing guide you to the next thing.
00:23:08.60 Tony Fowler So this is a related question potentially. um This is from Katie Gray Moves. And she asks ah reducing muscle guarding after proximal humerus fracture.
00:23:23.83 Tony Fowler And the reason I say it's related is maybe muscle guarding. Do you think that would refer to like a protective tension?
00:23:29.64 Taylor Kruse Definitely. Yeah.
00:23:32.31 Tony Fowler So you know in the case of a proximal humorous fracture how would you be thinking about that?
00:23:32.45 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:23:41.82 Taylor Kruse and I'm thinking of the eight levels model that you guys just talked about and probably would start locally with movement because there's probably receptors that have been affected.
00:23:53.85 Taylor Kruse Emily Holtzman- Locally so either joint mobility or i don't know if there's any kind of scarring depending on what kind of break it was explore that as an option and even neuromechanics so focusing on peripheral nerves that supply the muscles that are involved.
00:24:00.41 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:24:06.88 Taylor Kruse Emily Holtzman- That would be a first local starting point. Yeah that's great. And you know it's that same same concept really. I mean there's a fracture there. You don't or there was and it's healing and you don't want to necessarily go and use a seek and destroy mentality and start trying to annihilate all the tension.
00:24:26.55 Taylor Kruse cause because that's what people end up doing right?
00:24:28.68 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:24:28.99 Taylor Kruse They use different tools and stuff and dig in there and that might not be the best way to approach it. And yeah using those local tools would be a good starting point. And then you know more ideas that then go possibly even higher order would be you know with that like sensory testing starting to do some things that activate the opposite cortex would be involved in that.
00:24:54.07 Taylor Kruse So here's the weird thing. you can actually get results in a case like this with decreasing some of that unwanted tension or muscle tone through vision exercises right?
00:25:07.68 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:25:08.42 Taylor Kruse It's it's a weird concept for somebody that has not experienced something like that but the lower body can is absolutely going to be affected by by vision exercises.
00:25:21.91 Taylor Kruse So you know in that scenario it's Understand the assessment process. you know use When you're dealing with a very specific issue and you have a very specific goal you also have to have a very specific form of assessment. So it has to go beyond just the general range of motion testing that we're always teaching people.
00:25:41.51 Taylor Kruse That's where it starts. But this individual would have to test how they're moving the ah the injured area or how it feels right in some way. That would have to be part of the assessment.
00:25:54.52 Taylor Kruse So that using that as the assessment and then working through some of those inputs that Alicia described into even some of the vision vestibular drills something's going to affect it.
00:26:07.79 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:26:07.99 Taylor Kruse even even joint mobility of the spine. Cause I I don't know how you fracture your humerus but there's some kind of impact that happened. So I imagine even just moving joint mobility. and both Sorry we said humorous. and My mind was on the lower body. Yeah. So uh not the lower body but the upper body.
00:26:26.26 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Same same thing. So you'd bed be amazed what uh what the uh the higher order stuff can do for for muscles that are you know guarding like that.
00:26:44.98 Tony Fowler So I have a question about timing because if you had just gotten the fracture yesterday you might feel differently about that muscle guarding that protective tension.
00:26:57.69 Tony Fowler So protective tension what was the term you guys used?
00:27:00.34 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:01.24 Tony Fowler Yeah protective tension.
00:27:01.29 Taylor Kruse That's it.
00:27:02.97 Tony Fowler um Then if it's six months to a year later.
00:27:07.83 Taylor Kruse is
00:27:08.41 Tony Fowler um So I'm curious how you navigate that timeline how you think about that.
00:27:13.69 Taylor Kruse Well early on you definitely don't want to be trying to remove all that protective tension at once right? And especially if there's like scarring depending on the injury and maybe you know if there was a surgery or something you definitely want to you need to kind of a physical therapist is gonna share with you when you sort of have permission to start working locally on the scar area.
00:27:41.30 Taylor Kruse you know So once you know that then you know you can you can use that to your advantage and as part of your timeline.
00:27:42.20 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:27:49.00 Taylor Kruse you'd switch to focusing on the pain levels and trying to figure out how to inhibit pain because there's going to be pain but you can manage it with if you think about the neurology of movement we know the pain the PMRF is involved with pain inhibition. we can figure out how to engage that PMRF on that side.
00:28:08.50 Taylor Kruse And so you can really do opposite side movement. You can do some stuff that affects the cortex on that same side or the PMRF on that same side through cranial nerves. So there's a lot of ways to just inhibit pain so that then you can focus on the recovery. Yeah the cranial nerves is actually an excellent tool for like initially when you have a lot of protective tension and you're trying to move the area locally but you're not having a ton of success with increasing your mobility let's say.
00:28:39.31 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:28:39.45 Taylor Kruse Some of the basic cranial nerve activations are phenomenal in that in that situation. So you might be trying to do a movement you know with your arm and you are always restricted at this one area.
00:28:56.47 Taylor Kruse And then you try some cranial nerves like like activating trigeminal nerve biting on something on that side right? Or doing some of the medullary work that we like where you're you're using gargling or humming or tongue exercises.
00:29:13.21 Taylor Kruse And you do this stuff in combination with the localized work and you'll get some really really impressive improvements in mobility that way. and And then you're just it's just sort of like reminding the brain what's possible.
00:29:27.86 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:29:27.93 Taylor Kruse right if i If I can create a situation where I moved my arm further than I did before and I had less pain it's now now I have to repeat that enough to actually convince my brain that I can have ownership over that range of motion.
00:29:41.11 Taylor Kruse And that's the process. That's how it unfolds. So that's where you're the consistency comes in with drilling.
00:29:48.47 Tony Fowler I love that um that idea of like focusing on pain inhibition first and then like mobility sort of second.
00:29:54.25 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm.
00:29:58.10 Tony Fowler um
00:29:58.10 Taylor Kruse Totally.
00:30:00.18 Tony Fowler and And you know a lot of people um kind of I think already know the wisdom of like you do want to get mobile kind of as quickly as possible when injured without obviously reinjuring it or or making it worse.
00:30:13.03 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:30:14.62 Tony Fowler um But how do you get from point A to point B? You know I think a lot of people.
00:30:18.49 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:30:20.62 Tony Fowler they're in a cast or on crutches and they're basically just trying to avoid that part of the body um for for a long time right?
00:30:26.01 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:30:28.91 Tony Fowler And then that can lead to longer term issues right?
00:30:29.37 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:30:32.84 Tony Fowler So the idea of imparating pain go ahead.
00:30:32.86 Taylor Kruse Yeah and and sometimes the lymph stuff yeah sometimes the lymph stuff is important in that stage too. So we had that whole episode on on the lymphatic system with some different techniques shared in there.
00:30:45.10 Taylor Kruse Managing fluid dynamics can make a big difference on you know being able to move injured areas you know with more quality and less pain. So sometimes the lymph techniques early on or are a really good way to set the stage for for better rehab.
00:31:02.87 Taylor Kruse And this might be difficult for some people. It is for me. But visualization is a really good technique when you can't when something is in such an acute state. You can visualize yourself actually moving that body part without the pain in a healthy way. And that actually can help with the recovery. And you you can minimize your loss of strength actually. Isn't there a study that shows that you minimize strength loss?
00:31:25.11 Taylor Kruse I think visualization. I think I remember some.
00:31:26.61 Tony Fowler That's so cool.
00:31:27.51 Taylor Kruse yeah the The retests on movement visualization are ridiculously funny. like it's yeah It's cool.
00:31:34.07 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:31:35.45 Taylor Kruse like like If you can teach somebody how to actually visualize moving but the the problem here that people encounter is that not everybody can visualize movement. you You take it for granted. You think no problem close my eyes.
00:31:48.66 Taylor Kruse Some people can't even figure out how to visualize moving from the perspective of themselves looking through their own eyes.
00:32:01.11 Taylor Kruse They want to see themselves let's say in a room moving and they're a spectator.
00:32:07.67 Tony Fowler Like third person yeah. Yeah.
00:32:08.75 Taylor Kruse That's right. Yeah.
00:32:09.40 Tony Fowler yeah
00:32:10.07 Taylor Kruse Yeah. And we found that the best way to do this is visualization as if it's through the window of your own eyes. and And therefore you know that takes a different skill set for the visualization. And then the big thing is when you move through visualization you can't take your dysfunctions with you.
00:32:28.82 Taylor Kruse And some people who have been in chronic pain for a long time even though it sounds weird they try to visualize squatting or doing a lunge or doing something. And there's like ah there's like a block there because they've been in pain doing that for so long.
00:32:41.72 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:32:44.86 Taylor Kruse So it it can take some training for some people. Other people do it easy no problem especially athletes who have had any kind of experience with exercise. visualization for sport performance. They do quite well with it.
00:32:57.34 Taylor Kruse But the the test retest on this stuff is hilarious. um You want to talk about you know people on Instagram always say what is this voodoo that you're doing? This really looks like voodoo. Someone's got a seven out of 10 shoulder pain.
00:33:12.38 Taylor Kruse It's too painful to move. You have them visualize movement without you know bringing that dysfunction with them in the visual visualization they retest and they're moving further with less pain and they didn't even do anything.
00:33:28.10 Taylor Kruse It's a tool and it can be a really good one in the right situation.
00:33:33.75 Tony Fowler Yeah I've used ah visualization with strength training. That's a technique I learned where you know when you're going to do your work set your heavy set you know you visualize everything from like getting set grabbing the bar you know up into the full range of motion and back.
00:33:48.12 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm.
00:33:51.15 Tony Fowler And like if you're you have to visualize all the reps. and like I was squatting heavy and like i was kind of dreading the the fourth and fifth rep of the set because you know it's heavy as hell.
00:34:02.82 Tony Fowler Right. And I remember in the visualizations I would also have a hard time keeping concentration on the fourth and fifth reps of that set.
00:34:11.80 Taylor Kruse Yes. Yeah exactly. I know what you mean. So I've experienced with my own visualization more I used it for more sports performance a long time ago as an athlete.
00:34:14.78 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:34:24.47 Taylor Kruse and used it through a stage where I was injured and couldn't train very much. And so used the visualization and found that I was able to keep up with the pattern recognition that came from drilling at practice.
00:34:39.90 Taylor Kruse I wouldn't lose that if I continued to visualize a lot about wrestling right? But one of the things that I had to train through and figure out was I had a hard time stopping movement in my visualization.
00:34:52.15 Taylor Kruse It was a weirdest sensation. So I'm doing a wrestling technique and then all a sudden in my visualization my body keeps going and I can't stop it So it's unwanted movement that's not being inhibited. Now I look at that and I think oh yeah that was somehow that was the more of like a cerebellar issue that was turning up in my visualization. Because when we see unwanted movement that's not being inhibited properly one of the structures we we think a lot about is the cerebellum. So that was actually turning up in my visualization which was really weird. And then I had to learn how to basically put the brakes on when I wanted to without...
00:35:29.88 Taylor Kruse the whole thing getting sort of carried away.
00:35:33.91 Tony Fowler Fascinating.
00:35:34.52 Taylor Kruse it is.
00:35:37.59 Tony Fowler So going address this one to Alicia um and you'll see why in a second. This is from Jalen Photo. How would you combine acupuncture with some applied neurology for relief of vertigo post-concussion?
00:35:54.81 Tony Fowler I suspect the vertigo now comes from remapping proprioceptive inputs in my neck. I'm doing much better with all sorts of VOR variants but changes in neck posture can trigger dizziness.
00:36:07.58 Tony Fowler My chiropractor use uses acupuncture pressure points and my body responds so well.
00:36:15.86 Taylor Kruse So I don't have experience in doing this but I would be considering points that might help with inflammation because a lot of times with vertigo inflammation is involved.
00:36:28.02 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:36:28.57 Taylor Kruse So you can use acupuncture to impact the parasympathetic nervous system and promote healing and processing of inflammation. And then in terms of applied neurology you'd be evaluating the vestibular system or the visual system or even proprioceptive movements of the neck and seeing where there might be a threat or some kind of deficit.
00:36:50.04 Taylor Kruse um And typically the goal is to find a deficit that is actually high payoff so that you can begin to train that deficit without high threat. um And that would be best case scenario but um it can get a little bit more complicated if you are finding worse assessments with vestibular training.
00:37:10.58 Taylor Kruse So you have to kind of like you have to decide are we just going to focus on neck proprioception which I've had to do with a client that has vertigo frequent spells of vertigo. She really needed a lot of neck strength training.
00:37:22.84 Taylor Kruse And so there's a um there's a way into vestibular training but you're going to have to start with mobility strength and easy vestibular drills. I was just about to say because Alicia started out by saying well i don't have a lot of experience with this but and then she went on.
00:37:42.62 Taylor Kruse here's Here's realistically here's what I think matters. The reason correct me if I'm wrong the reason she doesn't have a lot of experience with this is because she would gravitate more towards her applied neuro tools than acupuncture for that problem.
00:37:58.04 Taylor Kruse Maybe not even use acupuncture at all.
00:37:58.08 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:38:01.08 Taylor Kruse Right? Yeah it's true. Yeah. Yeah. they're They're more powerful tools for that problem but this person says it that the acupuncture points or whatever's being done really help her feel better.
00:38:11.99 Taylor Kruse Well that's good but is it is it helping the issue? right So there's a big difference between something that feels therapeutic and maybe is helping them feel better and that could be part of the process for sure
00:38:25.11 Taylor Kruse But when you're trying to train and and retrain the vestibular system it it can get confusing when you bring in other therapeutic modalities.
00:38:38.20 Taylor Kruse A lot of the reason for that is back to that table dilemma situation is that you're in most cases you're laying down for those things. And in in this case if it's a vertigo that happens to have a lot of involvement with autonomic function you can use acupuncture very well to affect autonomics. But then the question is what happens when they stand up?
00:39:00.12 Taylor Kruse Right? So to to retrain a system that's as complex as the vestibular system you have to use the most specific training.
00:39:12.15 Taylor Kruse Otherwise things get confused along the way. So that's why that's just one thought that came to mind. I think a lot of that would just have to be very detailed vestibular rehab and proprioceptive work.
00:39:24.92 Taylor Kruse But the active component is the key. Because when you're using any kind of modality like acupuncture or anything else for that matter it's more passive in nature.
00:39:37.98 Taylor Kruse more passive. you're You're having the therapy done to you and you're not doing anything active yet to learn right? For for your brain to learn how to own results.
00:39:51.93 Taylor Kruse And so this this gap between what is a passive therapy versus an active one is a very interesting to think thing to think about. And it really matters in cases like this because if if it's too much passive and not enough active work like
00:40:07.51 Taylor Kruse ah assessing and training the eyes and the inner ear and proprioceptively the neck and whatever else if you're not doing enough active work it's hard to maintain any kind of result. And then you just become the person that's going back for the table treatment over and over and over again for kind of like the what feels sort of like the reset right? Like I feel better from this but I'm not necessarily carrying this result far enough into my life.
00:40:34.90 Taylor Kruse that's when we got to think about more about the said principle for the vestibular system the specific inputs. The other thing I'll say about that too is a lot of people that have vertigo have some kind of underlying gut health issue.
00:40:51.32 Taylor Kruse And so in terms of acupuncture you can use acupuncture to improve your digestion improve your autonomics. Things like that. So that can be a really good way to use acupuncture.
00:41:02.62 Taylor Kruse And then on top of that you have to explore why you have a gut health issue. um Why aren't you digesting your food? Is it the food you're eating? um Is it a lifestyle problem? Lack of exercise?
00:41:13.59 Taylor Kruse Is it an imbalance in macronutrients? you're missing certain nutrients and you don't realize it um has bacteria gotten imbalanced in your gut for some reason because of previous infections or illnesses or things like that um you have to consider gut health because if if you have a gut imbalance you can have inflammation systemically.
00:41:38.30 Taylor Kruse And there's I don't know the exact relationship but there's when there's inflammation in the body it almost feels like that inflammation can be felt through your ears. And so um people often describe like a weird feeling in their ears not just vertigo but like just like a weird feeling. And it's it's pressure sensitive. The whooshing is how I describe it. Cause I had that before. Yeah. And when I had it can even be affected by like weather.
00:42:04.50 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Peak mold toxicity for me when I was having strange symptoms from that were gut related. I had some whooshing in my ears and sort of the feeling of pressure and heat. Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:17.48 Tony Fowler So...
00:42:17.54 Taylor Kruse Vertigo is interesting though because it can be should it we should say not all vertigo is an inner ear problem. Not all vertigo is a gut issue. Vertigo is a weird one because when you when you think about this through the lens of the threat bucket vertigo is an output.
00:42:33.08 Taylor Kruse ah and And there's so many reasons why you can have that. I looked it up recently just you know I don't know how accurate it is but potentially accurate enough.
00:42:45.40 Taylor Kruse um We were talking about this recently in the community and just a quick search brought up two to four million people a year in the United States visit the emergency room for vertigo.
00:42:59.38 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:43:00.06 Taylor Kruse And so what does that tell you? Vertigo is a health problem. Right. It's it's just it's one of those outputs those protective outputs that can be triggered or caused by so many other different things that sort of create this cumulative response which in this case might be the vertigo. And it can be very specific too right? It can be super specific to the eyes and the inner ear. So it's a tough one.
00:43:26.17 Tony Fowler Yeah in this case um they say relief of vertigo post-concussion. And I think you had even mentioned concussion earlier um it's a potential trigger for something like that.
00:43:33.02 Taylor Kruse Oh I missed that. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:43:38.30 Tony Fowler um And then i guess circling back to acupuncture in general is if it's applied mostly with someone lying down and even you would consider it kind of like a passive injury
00:43:54.94 Tony Fowler ah stimulus. Would the idea then be if you were to if it's like really something that's working well for this person they say every time I do this I feel good.
00:44:05.34 Tony Fowler um Would that be the kind of thing where you'd want to transition immediately to something active while they're in that like. Improved state parasympathetic state.
00:44:16.95 Taylor Kruse Yeah I would be finding ways to um It depends on what they're dealing with. So I'd be finding ways to get them to learn how to do movements that are gonna help them sustain that when they're not in session because you need the frequency and the repetition to really have something hold long-term.
00:44:29.61 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:44:35.70 Taylor Kruse And so it depends on what their pattern is and what their complaint is. But um yeah I'd be evaluating their cerebellum and maybe even their visual or vestibular system and figuring out how to get that same effect or changes in their muscle tone using those tools so that they can practice those things at home on their own. In our courses we talk a lot about these two different phases kind of taking when you When you look at working with somebody longer term you have what's called the threat reduction phase and then eventually you enter what we call the threat inoculation phase. So threat reduction could last depends on the individual and what they have going on could last one month could last six years depends on the person.
00:45:17.85 Taylor Kruse And what you're trying to do is use the right inputs to reduce threat enough so that the nervous system is feeling a little happier about incoming stimulus.
00:45:29.66 Taylor Kruse right Because people that have been have been in chronic pain or have had an overflowing threat bucket for a long time chronically they what happens is they start interpreting normal stimulus as dangerous.
00:45:42.94 Taylor Kruse And then we're no longer dealing with a primary original issue. This is why so many people go wrong with hey I'm in pain. what What do I do? They look for such a specific reason for the pain or a specific diagnosis that has the name of the body part in the title of it that makes them think oh this must be what I have.
00:46:04.06 Taylor Kruse you've When you've been in chronic stress for long enough with pain with health problems you're no longer dealing with one issue anymore. And in your your brain is interpreting normal stimulus as dangerous and therefore the little things that aren't even necessari necessarily related push you over the edge.
00:46:25.11 Taylor Kruse And so now you're becoming sensitive to other forms of stimulus. So acupuncture a very good threat reduction tool in my experience.
00:46:36.98 Taylor Kruse I respond quite nicely to it in that sense. and And then like yeah except when i'm trigger except when i except when I'm being the typical client and saying hey I came here for needling.
00:46:42.71 Tony Fowler Except not always you know. Mmm.
00:46:51.37 Taylor Kruse Can you put one right here? Yeah that's exactly like if we people do that if I'm helping him with more of like a systemic thing like getting it relaxation or digestion or whatever. Yeah it works great. But if it's a trigger point technique specifically yep not so good. And that makes me think of the lady that had a concussion or vertigo post concussion I wouldn't necessarily be needling her neck because that's probably they're probably needling muscles of the neck that have tension post concussion.
00:47:22.39 Taylor Kruse And I don't know if that's the right strategy because that's kind of like a trigger point strategy. And that protective tension might be there because your visual and vestibular systems are highly affected post-concussion.
00:47:34.17 Tony Fowler Right so that's that protective tension.
00:47:34.14 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:47:36.05 Tony Fowler And maybe you need to focus on the higher order systems before you remove that tension.
00:47:38.42 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:47:40.95 Taylor Kruse Yes. Otherwise you will be going back to the chiropractor for needling forever.
00:47:46.09 Tony Fowler Hmm.
00:47:46.33 Taylor Kruse Just that's I mean let's be honest like in a lot of these places and you know where you can get this stuff done it kind of goes back to our original conversation about being so over-devoted to one thing.
00:47:59.26 Taylor Kruse I mean sometimes you're becoming a victim of the business model. I'm not saying that about this particular person. We don't know. We don't have information. But it is something to consider you know where you know you're you're you sort of become dependent on the practitioner.
00:48:10.87 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:48:17.37 Taylor Kruse which ultimately we're trying our hardest not to make people dependent on the things that we're doing with them which is why we've we've gravitated so much to more of an active model so that people can practice this stuff on their own and be empowered. And and that's what gets them better long-term results anyway.
00:48:37.43 Tony Fowler This is from Northwood Serenity. And again I think it's it's related. As a massage therapist what is the best way to incorporate neuro work?
00:48:49.56 Tony Fowler And then they also ask well you have actual classes.
00:48:49.82 Taylor Kruse This is a good one.
00:48:53.14 Tony Fowler So let's address the first question and then we can address the second question.
00:48:53.66 Taylor Kruse yeah Could I start on this one and then you can add? Yeah. Well yeah so we've got we've got some classes. we've got our so And you can start right away with a free class.
00:49:07.64 Taylor Kruse That's our that's our free cranial nerve master class. It's a great thing for this is a massage therapist. Is that what you said?
00:49:13.37 Tony Fowler Yeah yeah. yeah
00:49:14.42 Taylor Kruse Yeah that's a great thing for some some takeaways. So they can they can find the link for that and and get started there. And then of course we have our we have our courses Foundations course and our advanced course the NeuroDojo that goes very deep into the applied neuroscience.
00:49:28.54 Taylor Kruse So how does ah how does a manual therapist apply this work? I actually think a manual therapist is in a fantastic place to to improve their skills with applied neuroscience. if they are willing to make some changes that are very uncomfortable.
00:49:48.06 Taylor Kruse right um So here's what I mean by that. A lot of times manual therapists offer manual therapy and that's it. right So again it's that one stimulus.
00:50:00.95 Taylor Kruse Ensure the stimulus can be changed little by little depending on the the way the person is working with their hands. right But it's really just kind of one thing. And the business model gets built around that which a lot of manual therapists have a hard time sort of integrating other skills into the work they're doing because the general population likes to seek out manual therapists and actually tell the manual therapist hey rub this area.
00:50:29.78 Taylor Kruse right And that's a lot of times that's how it works. Now some manual therapists are doing... very very high level work and they make the decisions. But a lot of them the client makes the decision right? So it sort of depends on what kind of manual therapist are you right? And and are you really thinking your way through this and making the decisions for the client and are they trusting you?
00:50:51.42 Taylor Kruse That person is in a great place to apply neuro type drills. and And I always tell our students this this is kind of stage one.
00:51:01.78 Taylor Kruse Most manual therapists do the manual work and the person gets off the table and maybe the session is over. As a manual therapist you can now take some of the things we're teaching joint mobilizations vision exercises vestibular exercises breathing exercises and those can be the way that you integrate a better result.
00:51:25.40 Taylor Kruse So you've just done some tissue work on somebody's body. Now they need a chance to integrate change. And that's when you follow up with the exercises that we're teaching people.
00:51:36.28 Taylor Kruse And in this this way of working increases results unbelievably for this person. And you get to assign them homework.
00:51:46.52 Taylor Kruse Whereas sometimes you go to a manual therapist They do the tissue work you stand up you walk out of there you feel better for a little while until you need to go back. So now again you're becoming kind of dependent on the manual therapy.
00:52:01.18 Taylor Kruse But if you had homework exercises to work as sort of an integration so that your brain can learn something you're gonna move the needle in the right direction and probably get better results. So day one applying neuroscience to manual therapy is do the manual work follow up with movement work.
00:52:23.32 Taylor Kruse Just that right there could change somebody's business forever. So the client's pointing to the the tension that you feel around your scapula.
00:52:34.39 Taylor Kruse You do the necessary tissue work around the scapula then retest see if their nervous system likes it. If it does you get the green light to now do some proprioceptive work that's active not passive.
00:52:48.60 Taylor Kruse You teach them how to move their scapula better through a full range of motion. And just that follow-up changes everything. It really comes all down to the education that you provide your client because if you can give them an an experience of actually getting improvement in the moment and they can see that you're evaluating that and they feel it in their own body then they're going to be willing to explore the options you're providing and not necessarily relying just on the massage itself.
00:53:17.88 Taylor Kruse Exactly. And that is that like Taylor said it's actually very uncomfortable. Very And we went through a similar experience transitioning from stretching people into doing neuro.
00:53:28.66 Taylor Kruse um And we've actually had this question asked before like how do you deal with the fact that your clients are coming in and they want what you've already been providing them? um you may like you just have to decide your transition strategy like how are you going to approach the session maybe you decide in the beginning that you're still going to do a traditional massage for 30 minutes and then you're going to spend 30 minutes doing a neuro evaluation plus neuro exercises and give yourself that time to teach them about what the threat bucket is and where pain comes from and how their body is impacted by these different inputs. And that can help transition them a little bit easier rather than just being like I don't do massage anymore.
00:54:09.11 Taylor Kruse um i just do neuro. That's a hard sell. Yeah. Yeah. And that's important. It's important to say too. So sometimes our students when they come through the courses we have a lot of manual therapists that take our courses and they get so jazzed up and excited about applied neuro because the results initially are like this is this is wild. Like How did we change this movement and decrease pain so quickly with this one exercise when it would take me 45 minutes of tissue work to get this kind of result? And so they get real excited and then they get really bought into it. And then they ask me if I think they should quit manual therapy.
00:54:45.56 Taylor Kruse And I go no do not quit manual therapy. It's one of the most powerful tools you can possibly use. You just have to use it in the right way and learn how to apply it and not be over devoted to it and and respect these other systems too and and integrate that into the work that you're doing. and it's It's an uncomfortable process at at first for sure because you it challenges your thinking it challenges your business model and it creates even uncomfortable conversations between you and the client at first because yeah you might have a client that's expecting you to work a certain way and you now want to change your thinking and you know not everybody wants to give up time on the massage table.
00:55:29.35 Tony Fowler Mm hmm. I imagine there's even like a a way to just start a dialogue. Like when they come in you can say hey how have you been feeling? Have you been holding tension somewhere in particular? Oh interesting.
00:55:42.58 Tony Fowler um Do you mind if I do a quick a quick evaluation before we start?
00:55:46.01 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:55:46.73 Tony Fowler And then after the massage hey do you you know you start stop five minutes early and say hey do you mind if ah let's let's reassess that real quick? Oh interesting. I've noticed your your range of motion there improved.
00:55:59.38 Tony Fowler um you know And like kind of kind of just without even saying hey I'm going to do applied neurology just kind of sneak it in there like that.
00:56:00.86 Taylor Kruse Totally.
00:56:04.89 Taylor Kruse Yes. That's right. It doesn't have that's a great point Tony. It doesn't ever have to be under the umbrella or title of applied neurology because everybody's doing applied neurology.
00:56:17.99 Taylor Kruse That's why people ask me all the time in the DMs or and when I do question boxes on Instagram. So how does your method of applied neurology deal with this or can it help this? And I'm like ah first of all it's not my method. Okay. Second of all everything's applied neurology.
00:56:37.14 Taylor Kruse So what you're really asking me is through my experience how would you work with this issue? you know And every manual therapist is doing applied neurology.
00:56:49.05 Taylor Kruse It's just are you understanding the inputs? Are you doing it for a reason? Have you assessed? Are you reassessing? It's really interesting to think about it that way. So it does not have to be mentioned necessarily as something new or separate or its own methodology even.
00:57:09.11 Taylor Kruse I think if you're super new as a massage therapist to applied neurology I would start also with like family and friends because you're going to have an experience where you do a massage for them and they get worse and it's very uncomfortable.
00:57:15.62 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:57:23.37 Taylor Kruse Yeah that's that's a good thing to mention because that happens. Because what do you do? Like how do you explain that the technique you've been practicing on them for months is actually making them worse in the moment? Mm-hmm. And then you also need kind of a transition time to decide like which exercises to focus on.
00:57:41.40 Taylor Kruse And that can be really hard in the beginning to know where to start for each person. i always tell people to start with joint mobility because it's a really really easy tool to get started with. The visual and vestibular systems can feel really like complex at the beginning.
00:57:54.74 Taylor Kruse It also feels like it takes more buy-in.
00:57:55.48 Tony Fowler And just random for people I think yeah.
00:57:57.34 Taylor Kruse Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of a a safer starting point to mobility and breathing exercises are the two starting points I would yeah go for. nice Yeah.
00:58:08.34 Tony Fowler So I'm going read this question. We sort of just just covered it. But just to underscore that it's not just a massage therapist asking snail solve. Instagram says how to start applying neurology into your business.
00:58:22.94 Tony Fowler Start from scratch or include it in whatever you do. And so I guess like zooming out is it kind of the same regardless if you're
00:58:26.26 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:31.30 Tony Fowler chiropractor acupuncturist strength and conditioning coach um you know kinesthesiologist. Is it always kind of the the same approach?
00:58:44.73 Taylor Kruse Yeah yeah don't don't ever give up on the skills that you've already developed. Naturally let certain things phase themselves out as you get smarter and better at what you do.
00:58:59.67 Taylor Kruse and And you'll have reasons for that. But you don't want to give up. you don't You don't want to give up on any one thing that you've put time into learning because those are all very um good tools to explore and see how they fit into you know the applied neuroscience kind of thinking model.
00:59:19.22 Taylor Kruse So you just have to start. you have to It sounds weird but it takes courage. right when you When you've been working a certain way and you're in your comfort zone and you have those one or two things that you pretty much offer everybody it takes a lot of courage to break those patterns and say okay you know I'm gonna try this new thing that I'm learning.
00:59:41.78 Taylor Kruse But you'll be amazed. A lot of times you start learning a lot about you know the model that we're teaching with Applied Neuro and then it allows you to circle back to things that maybe you didn't fully understand before and now you can look at them through a new lens and even use them in a different way that's even more accurate and and can can provide maybe better results than it did initially.
01:00:10.71 Taylor Kruse In terms of like working with people and trying to get current clients to transition we had we had an interesting experience with that because we have very we had very open-minded clients that had a lot of trust in us.
01:00:25.78 Taylor Kruse um And so those clients allowed us to really start to experiment. Like you said at a few minutes in the beginning a few minutes in the end we didn't take away what we were doing initially.
01:00:37.27 Taylor Kruse um And then slowly with those clients it turned into eventually the the appointments were 100% applied neurology. um And that took time that took months several months. And then there were other clients who did not want that change.
01:00:52.98 Taylor Kruse And so then you have to decide... what to do because you kind of have internal conflict. I'm learning this thing.
01:00:59.49 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:00:59.72 Taylor Kruse I know that when I'm offering this person right now for us it was a stretching is not actually helping them. I'm assessing it at this point and it's not helping them. So I'm wasting my time and they're not actually getting a results it's wasting their money.
01:01:12.76 Taylor Kruse but one One lady yelled at us. she She got a refund. One lady yelled at us and ended up getting a refund.
01:01:17.14 Tony Fowler Wow. Yeah.
01:01:18.12 Taylor Kruse she paid for 10 sessions. And I think she wasn she was one of those people that came in and demanded what she wanted. Like every every professional has this experience with people where the client comes in and they're like tell them what to do.
01:01:24.10 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:01:30.49 Taylor Kruse And you're just like oh here we go again. She said I pay you to stretch me. yeah That's it. No exercises no bands. Because we're hooking up bands.
01:01:44.62 Taylor Kruse Hey try this.
01:01:45.75 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:01:45.96 Taylor Kruse She didn't want to do any of the movement stuff. She just wanted to lay on the ground and get stretched. And we were like this is you're going to do that anymore.
01:01:52.89 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:01:53.36 Taylor Kruse And you can have a refund. Because we just didn't want to we didn't want to suffer through 10 more sessions with this person going against everything we've been learning. So you might have to make that decision.
01:02:03.55 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:02:05.22 Taylor Kruse But that was not like a huge part of our business. There was probably two people that we lost.
01:02:10.50 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:02:10.74 Taylor Kruse Yeah i mean it was quite good. Yeah. Yeah.
01:02:13.18 Tony Fowler the The fear right is that oh no I'm going to lose half of my business and I need that business to you know.
01:02:13.40 Taylor Kruse um
01:02:17.75 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Yeah and there's always a sense of imposter syndrome too when you're learning something so complex and you're new to it. you know you just it's You are also feeling scared because what you're starting to do you don't really know yet if it's the right direction. And their response is because remember this is – very very intimidating at first. You're assessing everything that you're doing.
01:02:44.98 Taylor Kruse You are seeing the truth of whether or not what you are applying for an individual is actually doing what you want it to do. and And for us like previously like there was none of that.
01:02:57.24 Taylor Kruse There was none of that. It was just like oh yeah this is a good technique. Like everybody gets this. And that's ah that's just a tough transition but man is it worth it?
01:03:01.85 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:03:05.48 Taylor Kruse Because in the long run you end up learning how to listen to people better how to take a better history how to pick your assessments and your tools better. As Alicia was saying it always comes down to education.
01:03:19.19 Taylor Kruse The more you can educate the individual the better the experience is gonna be and their expectations are in in a healthy place. The assessment process is your best friend really because they experience the change. Unless you have someone that's not body aware whatsoever which does happen they experience the change and they can see that you know something good is going to happen. I want to keep trying this and see where it's going to go. Yeah.
01:03:50.20 Tony Fowler Yeah um so I always bring up my knee injury because it's my most relevant experience. But I remember my physical therapist she did dry needling.
01:04:02.08 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:04:03.16 Tony Fowler And the first time she did it you know I'm like lying down and she's doing it and like the kind of like in my hamstring area and the musculature there.
01:04:14.36 Tony Fowler And but so my problem was when I would basically put weight on my leg with a bent knee it would hurt. Um.
01:04:25.43 Tony Fowler to the point where I didn't want to like squat down sit down stand up too fast. um long Long story short that you know I went to the doctor and they put me on a table and bent my leg all every which way and said does this hurt?
01:04:39.42 Tony Fowler Does this hurt? Does this hurt? And I said no but I can replicate it right now if you just let me stand. um and And you know basically they couldn't do anything for me.
01:04:44.69 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:04:48.06 Tony Fowler Anyways all that to say um she did this dry needling technique and I remember getting up and she was okay squat. And I was like are you sure? Like this is what causes pain. I like didn't want to do it And she's like just try it you know? And I did it and I was like oh
01:05:03.13 Tony Fowler Like that felt better. And so in this instance that that technique helped me feel better in that moment. um And I got to say the buy in was very high after that.
01:05:13.59 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:05:13.59 Taylor Kruse Yeah exactly. Nice. That's a big part of it.
01:05:16.92 Tony Fowler Yeah. yeah If you can if you can show someone through an assessment that they feel for themselves I feel like they're that's powerful.
01:05:18.51 Taylor Kruse That's a big part of it.
01:05:25.33 Taylor Kruse Hugely powerful. Hugely.
01:05:28.50 Tony Fowler um How's your time? Do we have time for one more?
01:05:32.76 Taylor Kruse yeah Yeah yeah let's do it.
01:05:43.30 Tony Fowler Trying to find one.
01:05:55.15 Tony Fowler right. Taylor's not going to like this question. That's why I'm going to ask it. So this is from...
01:06:00.93 Taylor Kruse I'm not a doctor.
01:06:01.14 Tony Fowler Jose. No it's not that. ah what protocol
01:06:05.46 Taylor Kruse Tennis elbow.
01:06:07.93 Tony Fowler What protocol would you recommend to address left knee and right shoulder pain?
01:06:14.55 Taylor Kruse Left knee and right shoulder pain.
01:06:17.41 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:06:17.50 Taylor Kruse Okay. Well well we certainly don't have enough information to go with.
01:06:18.23 Tony Fowler What protocol?
01:06:23.97 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:06:25.79 Taylor Kruse We're not going to give you a protocol right? So that's that's the big thing is because well your pain experience is individual. It's your experience. I don't know what it it's what it's like. I'll never know what it's like right?
01:06:41.05 Taylor Kruse And because everybody responds differently we can't really use a protocol unless that protocol is referring to the assessment process right?
01:06:51.70 Taylor Kruse right so So it's not like I can say okay do these five exercises. These are good for for those issues. So it's that's important to put out there.
01:07:03.65 Taylor Kruse And you know I'll be putting that out there forever right? Because people do think that a lot of people think that what they need is the right protocol.
01:07:07.47 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:07:13.43 Taylor Kruse So first what's important is to learn the basic assessment process you know process that we teach. And it can be the very general one where we start people with range of motion testing that's perfectly fine. And you can you can easily learn that through our free content.
01:07:32.12 Taylor Kruse And we're talking about it here in the podcast all the time. And you can you can get a you can get coaching on it in the the free masterclass that we offer. Because the most important thing is being able to assess every single input that you offer your brain and nervous system to see if in fact it is specific enough to help with remind me was it opposite?
01:07:52.80 Taylor Kruse it was shoulder to knee was it?
01:07:55.10 Tony Fowler Yep.
01:07:55.59 Taylor Kruse Yeah shoulder to knee.
01:07:56.00 Tony Fowler Yep. Left knee and right shoulder pain.
01:07:58.20 Taylor Kruse Yeah yeah because we need to know are the inputs that we're trying are they specific enough for those issues? Now there is a couple of interesting ideas to consider.
01:08:10.04 Taylor Kruse um You know when someone says they've got this kind of opposite you know cross body type of relationship going on.
01:08:20.95 Taylor Kruse um Although it's not perfect possibly exploring like some opposing joint work might be quite useful there.
01:08:32.66 Taylor Kruse Because when we do for example right shoulder work we typically get good improvements in the left hip. right When we do right elbow work we typically get good improvements in the left knee.
01:08:40.39 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:08:45.75 Taylor Kruse right We have to go through an reassess process. so it the The pain presentation that they're sharing is maybe not perfect for that but it's still worth worth trying. um and Honestly like you cannot...
01:09:01.33 Taylor Kruse like you gotta start simple too. Basic joint mobilizations for these areas that are causing pain if you can move them in a way that is not exacerbating the issue.
01:09:13.18 Taylor Kruse The basic joint mobility stuff that we teach on YouTube fantastic as is the basic neuromechanics stuff that we teach. Those are like the nerve glides.
01:09:21.24 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:09:23.80 Taylor Kruse All those could be really good localized tools that might be able to get things moving in the right direction. I would say if local stuff isn't working then I would consider anything in the midline. So we consider the midline the spine and the eyes.
01:09:38.62 Taylor Kruse And so for someone if you're just new to applied neurology just basic spinal mobility would be a good starting point along with trying different breathing exercises that can mobilize the rib cage. um For sure. Especially in this kind of cross body presentation. There could be midline issues there.
01:09:55.58 Taylor Kruse So ultimately it might be a visual or vestibular issue but we won't know that without assessing it and knowing more history. So a very easy starting point would be just spinal mobility and breathing exercises.
01:10:06.69 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:10:06.78 Taylor Kruse Yeah. And test retest. Yeah.
01:10:09.01 Tony Fowler I'm noticing a theme here.
01:10:10.46 Taylor Kruse Yes.
01:10:10.65 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:10:13.21 Tony Fowler Yeah because I know um you know in the past we've discussed like if someone was presenting with right knee pain and right shoulder pain you know that that one side of the body could be a clue to like a PMRF issue perhaps or something.
01:10:24.47 Taylor Kruse Yes. Yep. Often. Yes.
01:10:28.98 Tony Fowler um So having the cross body I was interested to see what what that clue might indicate.
01:10:32.70 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
01:10:34.57 Tony Fowler You know we don't know until we test it but.
01:10:34.81 Taylor Kruse Yeah. And Exactly. And sometimes if it like sometimes with these cross-body patterns too it can be like a lot of force transfer issues that have then caused what becomes pain you know joint pain.
01:10:48.63 Taylor Kruse you know So looking at the midline running some of our assessments would be important there for midline stability.
01:10:48.68 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:10:55.34 Taylor Kruse and But yeah basic... kind of basic process there would be get everything moving good. like Learn how to move those joints the way they're designed to be moved. That's a great that's a great starting place.
01:11:12.22 Tony Fowler Awesome. Awesome. Do you have any questions for one another?
01:11:21.40 Taylor Kruse What's for lunch? ah Probably eggs. That's about it. Do we have any?
01:11:28.47 Tony Fowler Nice.
01:11:28.65 Taylor Kruse Oh we have leftover pork.
01:11:30.98 Tony Fowler Leftover pork. I love leftovers.
01:11:32.22 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Oh yes.
01:11:33.50 Tony Fowler I feel like sometimes they taste even better with time.
01:11:34.25 Taylor Kruse Leftovers. Yes they're very important except Alicia's not thrilled about these leftovers. It's a ground pork sausage. Not my favorite.
01:11:45.14 Taylor Kruse We've been doing a lot of we've been really really dialed on our nutrition the last how many months would you say?
01:11:45.47 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:11:51.67 Taylor Kruse for me since the end of April. Well since November. Well we've been making big changes changes since November yeah yeah. But we've been really... So the way it's been working for us is we we started making very big changes for our health through nutrition in November because of all of the work we're doing to... get through mold toxicity and build our minerals back and all of that. And the good news is we got to a place where we were feeling much better and then we're able to start thinking about dealing with some of the weight that we gained throughout the entire process.
01:12:26.78 Taylor Kruse And so the last yeah since I guess April maybe a little I've been doing this a little bit longer than you have but you know we we've been tracking our food and trying to get really dialed in on what are we actually eating for macros and started feeling good enough and blood sugar started feeling repaired enough that we were able to start eating less food and making progress with with ah losing fat and also
01:12:56.89 Taylor Kruse ah Basically what feels like is get rid of unwanted threat-based fluid retention that came from the whole process.
01:13:05.15 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:13:05.78 Taylor Kruse So yeah we've been zooming in you know on on meals and it's been good. I haven't tracked food in a long time and I i may have even said I'd never do it again. But i'm I'm glad I did because man you'd be amazed. Like in the last couple years as all this was unfolding I sort of lost track of How much energy does a food can you know have in it.
01:13:28.92 Taylor Kruse and Whereas before i like a while back I thought I had a pretty good idea of like okay if I eat this I'll be able to maintain my healthy body weight. And that all got away from me with the gut issues because in the blood sugar issues because I was essentially eating to you know recover energy that I didn't have. And so yeah.
01:13:50.65 Tony Fowler You had a fuel issue even though you were consuming calories.
01:13:52.36 Taylor Kruse That's right. That's it.
01:13:54.39 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:13:54.52 Taylor Kruse yeahp Had a fuel issue. We had a fuel issue even though we were doing everything we teach in terms of like eating enough protein and not completely eliminating carbs and eating at good mealtimes frequency things like that.
01:14:08.44 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:14:09.08 Taylor Kruse yeah The mold toxicity can really mess you up. Yeah that's been no joke.
01:14:13.71 Tony Fowler yeah.
01:14:14.74 Taylor Kruse I've lost 22 pounds since March.
01:14:17.27 Tony Fowler Oh wow.
01:14:18.10 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah it's been. I finally hit my pre-pregnancy weight from having my daughter five years ago. So but I'm slightly below.
01:14:27.34 Tony Fowler Wow. Okay.
01:14:29.54 Taylor Kruse So we're heading in the right direction.
01:14:33.08 Tony Fowler So in this case it sounds like there's there's multiple goals. Like it does sound like you guys want to lose weight to lose weight. But then there's also the goal of having less inflammation and less threat.
01:14:39.89 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
01:14:43.77 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
01:14:44.82 Tony Fowler So one is easy to track. You just get on a scale.
01:14:48.82 Taylor Kruse Right.
01:14:49.08 Tony Fowler The other like inflammation and threat with diet.
01:14:49.10 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
01:14:53.75 Tony Fowler it so So in my mind this isn't like
01:14:53.88 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
01:14:57.27 Tony Fowler as immediate as some things but maybe I'm wrong. Like how can you tell that your diet's going in the right direction in that case?
01:15:02.71 Taylor Kruse Yeah. I think you're right. It's It's not as immediate but you've got to really listen to your body. You have to really figure out whether or not you're digesting your food. And that can be really hard because we didn't even really know how bad it was as it was happening.
01:15:12.63 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:15:17.21 Taylor Kruse we're also You almost get numb to the sensations. Well because you're more focused on survival like you're hungry.
01:15:23.36 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:15:23.51 Taylor Kruse you know You have to eat when you're hungry and your blood sugar is all messed up. And so you're just going to eat and you can't really manage the fact that you might not need those calories. but you need the fuel that your body's actually not even digesting which is why you're hungry all the time.
01:15:35.30 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:15:39.99 Taylor Kruse So you start to get confused about what you actually need. And so you have to start paying attention again to what your body is actually telling you. Like are you actually hungry? What kind of food do you do best with?
01:15:52.06 Taylor Kruse Are you getting bloated or gassy or burping or
01:15:56.15 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:15:57.24 Taylor Kruse And symptoms like a lot of symptoms will like when you're when you're moving in the right direction a lot of symptoms will get better or even go away entirely. And you kind of have to remember what those things are because every everybody in a health crisis that's what that's how I look at this. Everybody in a health crisis is the same. We call it a first brain response. Even with what we know about the nervous system we were still behaving this way. First brain response is when fight or flight is taken over.
01:16:25.50 Taylor Kruse your priority is survival and your you don't have as good of you don't have great cognition in this process.
01:16:33.44 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:16:35.06 Taylor Kruse And so everyone forgets their symptoms. So then when they're gone they they don't even really recognize that. You have to have a certain level of cognition to kind of step back and evaluate all these little things that you've been experiencing and then be able to kind of see the trend moving in the right direction. And it takes patience and it's never linear.
01:16:58.65 Taylor Kruse And you will get worse at times. But what you typically find is if you're headed in the right direction things will level out again and you'll keep heading in the right direction. You have to have improvement too in order to to know what doesn't feel good because you get so used to not feeling good.
01:17:13.06 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:17:14.88 Taylor Kruse like I didn't know I was having reflux until I went to the dentist with and found a ton of cavities. And they asked me if I had some sort of binge eating issue because I had acidic burns basically on my teeth.
01:17:25.54 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:17:29.34 Taylor Kruse I don't know how they would describe it but I was like no I i do not. So what's that coming from? and they're like well maybe you have silent reflux. And then I started paying attention and I was like oh my God I have reflux every single night. Like it's burning my throat. And I didn't even realize I was waking up that way for years.
01:17:47.93 Taylor Kruse Um and so now I've improved enough where that reflex is better managed but like we have the ground pork over the weekend and even the burgers that we were eating last week.
01:17:55.84 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:17:59.41 Taylor Kruse And I can feel that reflex coming in again. Sometimes when the fat content is too high in the meat that's when you yeah. Yeah. And there's something about that ground beef that's not working either but anyway yeah you can start to feel the when that's happening.
01:18:10.89 Taylor Kruse And so then you just have to change the how you organize your meals and it's a nitpicky process. Yeah.
01:18:17.30 Tony Fowler you kind of have to figure out what your triggers are I guess I would say or like your symptoms are that to watch out for.
01:18:17.30 Taylor Kruse you know it really is.
01:18:21.97 Taylor Kruse hmm. Yeah.
01:18:26.10 Taylor Kruse Yeah you're looking for high payoff foods you know the ones you feel you digest well they give you good energy that you can carry into the next task. And if you mentioned you know if you if you notice some of those things Alicia was describing being you know being bloated or you know gassy your mood is not what it should be you know you you listen to those things and figure out okay this foods working pretty well for me.
01:18:50.55 Taylor Kruse You know how did I sleep know all those little things.
01:18:54.84 Tony Fowler So the other thing that's so tough about this is it is so like multivariate right? Like how did I sleep? Was that because of the food? Was that because I'm stressed?
01:19:02.58 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
01:19:04.00 Tony Fowler Was that because I had a heavy workout today?
01:19:06.65 Taylor Kruse Right.
01:19:06.84 Tony Fowler Was that because it was too hot?
01:19:08.50 Taylor Kruse Right.
01:19:09.08 Tony Fowler um It's like hard.
01:19:10.17 Taylor Kruse Yep.
01:19:10.72 Tony Fowler It's hard to to parse that out I imagine.
01:19:12.98 Taylor Kruse It it it is it is. you You get better at this when you keep asking the same question how do I feel? So like with so we talk about this a lot.
01:19:23.67 Taylor Kruse Yeah. If we happen to go on like a hike over the weekend even though the hike's not that hard right now because we're hiking with our five-year-old it's still stress on the body.
01:19:34.10 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:19:34.30 Taylor Kruse And we we pick up on it kind of repetitively like when we hike like okay sometimes the body feels like there's more stress there and it' it's harder to recover.
01:19:46.78 Taylor Kruse And maybe we didn't sleep quite as well or something like that. And you see patterns you know like and it's similar to what you've probably experienced Tony if you've ever been like trying to do a weight cut or something where like when you when you exercise and you do strength training you generally maybe not everybody but most people wake up the next day. If you're weighing yourself you could be two pounds heavier. Yeah.
01:20:10.19 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
01:20:10.78 Taylor Kruse you know things like that.
01:20:10.93 Tony Fowler Holding all that water.
01:20:12.06 Taylor Kruse Yeah yeah those little changes because I'm very accustomed to seeing that most of the time. If I am weighing myself because I'm i im interested in losing body fat
01:20:23.82 Taylor Kruse I generally weigh myself each day to see the trend so I can follow the trend. And then if I strength train the next day I'm generally a little heavier. And you pick up on that enough where you go okay that's a pattern. And that's you can take a lot from that and kind of be a little bit more confident when when you're seeing those changes.
01:20:42.87 Taylor Kruse And sometimes it's just straight up confusing and you just have to then do good things for your body make good lifestyle choices that will help you find baseline again. Right. And then you begin again. It's it's not linear. it never is.
01:21:00.64 Tony Fowler Well maybe someday we'll do a whole episode on that process.
01:21:04.04 Taylor Kruse Yeah. We have a lot to say about that. Yeah. That's never ending. Yeah. You're just always you're always learning and it's never ending.
01:21:14.49 Tony Fowler Awesome.
01:21:19.51 Tony Fowler Shall we wrap it up?
01:21:21.56 Taylor Kruse Sure thing. All right there it is. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I know we're having fun with these Q and A's. Would you like to have Alicia back on the podcast?
01:21:32.22 Taylor Kruse Let us know. Cause yeah yeah this was fun.
01:21:33.21 Tony Fowler Yes.
01:21:37.46 Taylor Kruse What did you think? i I started to relax towards the end. Yeah when we first were getting on she's like I'm nervous. I'm like trust me you really don't have to be. It's yeah just kind of open conversation.
01:21:49.21 Taylor Kruse but yeah more practice and yeah yeah you'll you'll really really like it. um Yeah if our listeners and enjoy this kind of format let us know. well we'll try to We'll try to figure out how to get Alicia back on the podcast. I think it could be a really good thing.
01:22:04.06 Taylor Kruse So... Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you haven't done so yet we'd really appreciate it if you could give us a review. If you've been listening to the podcast and you really enjoy it those reviews go a long way for us. So that would be awesome. And and thank you guys for all of your support.
01:22:23.46 Taylor Kruse been hearing from a lot of people just on Instagram and stuff and the DMS how much you guys are enjoying the podcast. And I got to say this I'm still getting used to the idea of somebody out there that I have not met that is listening to every single episode and they're in a different country.
01:22:40.98 Taylor Kruse Like I'm I'm I'm flattered that anyone wants to hear anything that comes out of my mouth.
01:22:41.06 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:22:46.46 Taylor Kruse I'm still getting used to that but it's it's cool. it's It's really cool. And and knowing that that you guys are out there and enjoying the podcast and digging the information really helps me feel like I'm talking to you and is quite motivating. So thanks everybody for your support. And I look forward to doing this again.
