Timestamp Speaker Transcript
00:00:00.76 Tony Fowler And we're rolling.
00:00:03.45 Taylor Kruse Welcome back to the Cruise Elite Podcast.
00:00:05.21 Tony Fowler lead podcast what's up done
00:00:05.85 Taylor Kruse What's up Tony?
00:00:07.35 Tony Fowler Happy Monday Taylor.
00:00:09.34 Taylor Kruse Yes happy Monday.
00:00:10.94 Tony Fowler So I've been working on my ah Indian Club figure eights.
00:00:15.45 Taylor Kruse Nice.
00:00:15.70 Tony Fowler you I always forget what they're called. I'm terrible at remembering the names of things.
00:00:20.38 Taylor Kruse Yeah I don't think I know the original names of that stuff but basically I call them Mills.
00:00:24.50 Tony Fowler Yeah Mills that sounds right to me.
00:00:25.34 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:00:26.99 Tony Fowler I'm sure that there's like a an ancient term from South Asia or something but or Persia or wherever wherever they originate.
00:00:30.74 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:00:36.62 Tony Fowler um But yeah I've been practicing and I feel like I'm getting closer. like You know how sometimes you feel like you're practicing practicing practicing like it doesn't get better.
00:00:48.01 Tony Fowler And then one day it's just like oh that's like we're getting like that was a market improvement.
00:00:54.20 Taylor Kruse Totally.
00:00:56.02 Tony Fowler But yeah I think I think part of it is counting. So like I'll count on one side like one for the circle in front of my face two for the circle behind me when I'm doing it alone.
00:01:02.39 Taylor Kruse okay
00:01:06.84 Tony Fowler And then I'll do two for the circle in front of me with my left hand and one so that they sync up
00:01:13.02 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:01:13.08 Tony Fowler when they're going simultaneously. And I think that that's helping. I'm not sure.
00:01:16.53 Taylor Kruse Mm hmm.
00:01:16.95 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:01:17.62 Taylor Kruse You know what? You know what helps me? And this doesn't help everybody. I think this can mess some people up but I actually like seeing myself working in the mirror. and I feel like it gives me good feedback. So I actually have a mirror pretty close to my little gym space.
00:01:33.59 Taylor Kruse And some sometimes I'll use it.
00:01:35.90 Tony Fowler Yeah. All right. That's that's a good tip. I have a mirror here but I'm in a basement. And when I'm swinging these things I have to be mindful of ducting.
00:01:46.01 Taylor Kruse Oh yeah.
00:01:46.78 Tony Fowler And so I can be in like only one very specific orientation to do this movement. so
00:01:53.02 Taylor Kruse Mm hmm.
00:01:54.55 Tony Fowler um But that's a good point because sometimes I feel like I'll even just like lose... the motion behind my head. Like I won't actually do the full loop.
00:02:00.58 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:02:03.00 Tony Fowler um So yeah getting some some visual feedback would be helpful.
00:02:06.69 Taylor Kruse Yep and I film myself doing stuff too occasionally.
00:02:09.62 Tony Fowler here
00:02:10.23 Taylor Kruse You know I'll just set up my camera film it and then play it back and that that can give you a lot of feedback too and it's sometimes a little easier for people than seeing yourself in the mirror.
00:02:18.46 Tony Fowler In real time. Yeah.
00:02:19.26 Taylor Kruse Yeah yep.
00:02:21.27 Tony Fowler Yeah. Something to something to try. Are you working on any new skills right now?
00:02:27.32 Taylor Kruse No not really. I'm just checking in. You know i'm especially with the club stuff like I...
00:02:29.88 Tony Fowler Yeah. Yeah that is fun.
00:02:33.43 Taylor Kruse i so I pretty much just check in with the same fundamentals all the time.
00:02:34.61 Tony Fowler Yeah. same and mens all the time
00:02:38.39 Taylor Kruse And then occasionally I'll just like make stuff up just for fun.
00:02:38.81 Tony Fowler then occasionally i'll just like make stuff fine like it's almost like i'm
00:02:41.16 Taylor Kruse Like ah it's almost like I'm flowing several of the moves together just kind of seeing what can what can do that like how to transition from one to another.
00:02:43.62 Tony Fowler flowing several of the moves together just kind of seeing what can what can do that like how to transition from one to another it's kind of fun
00:02:51.05 Taylor Kruse It's kind of fun.
00:02:52.22 Tony Fowler yeah that is fun what the problem is man when i started exploring like that
00:02:52.82 Taylor Kruse But you know what the problem is man when I start exploring like that I end up using my workout time for all exploration.
00:02:56.63 Tony Fowler i end up using my workout time all exploration and then i'm like
00:03:00.48 Taylor Kruse And then I'm like darn it. Like I didn't even do these other things you know?
00:03:04.66 Tony Fowler other things Right right.
00:03:06.61 Taylor Kruse So it's like cause time is tough at the moment but yeah I like to check in.
00:03:06.97 Tony Fowler so Time is precious. Yeah. time is precious
00:03:13.12 Taylor Kruse Yep. Yep. I like to check in with that stuff and it still is one of my favorite tools for sure.
00:03:14.49 Tony Fowler with that stuff and it still is one of my favorites
00:03:17.44 Taylor Kruse Especially the steel clubs.
00:03:17.85 Tony Fowler especially the steel clubs
00:03:20.01 Taylor Kruse I've been using those a bit lately.
00:03:20.40 Tony Fowler i'm using those Yeah. I bet there's a way to like structure it where it's like okay every one in three or one in four workouts I'll just play.
00:03:29.29 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:03:29.46 Tony Fowler And then I'll get back to my you know my medicine for for the other times or whatever.
00:03:33.99 Taylor Kruse Yep.
00:03:36.28 Taylor Kruse Yep.
00:03:38.26 Tony Fowler But yeah play is I think a valuable commodity in these times you know it's like
00:03:43.86 Taylor Kruse It is. it It absolutely is. And usually people I think have the opposite problem. They get a little bit too rigid and structured. And they don't really get the play time because play for a lot of people takes...
00:03:54.84 Tony Fowler time cause play for lot of people
00:03:59.35 Taylor Kruse You know time and effort.
00:04:00.34 Tony Fowler time and effort
00:04:02.04 Taylor Kruse lot of people don't want to do that part right?
00:04:02.86 Tony Fowler don't want to do that
00:04:04.79 Taylor Kruse So yeah.
00:04:05.21 Tony Fowler so yeah yeah no when i'm when i'm doing like a kind of more like free form just playful kind of stuff like that it's either of the clubs or i've got this like uh 10 pound medicine ball.
00:04:19.01 Tony Fowler It's like a basketball but it's a medicine ball. Right. And I do stuff where I like toss it and then catch it and squat or like roll with it.
00:04:21.29 Taylor Kruse Yep.
00:04:24.25 Taylor Kruse Nice.
00:04:25.47 Tony Fowler or I just do weird stuff. And then since I've been working with you I've started rolling around more.
00:04:30.90 Taylor Kruse Nice.
00:04:31.10 Tony Fowler Just not every time but every once in a while it's just like OK I'm going to try to do some different roles and get more fluid with it you know.
00:04:40.69 Taylor Kruse That's great. That's great. I was thinking about the other day because I was ah brought my daughter to the playground nearby.
00:04:47.24 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:04:48.73 Taylor Kruse I did like a dad workout yesterday.
00:04:49.33 Tony Fowler did like a dad workout yesterday
00:04:50.61 Taylor Kruse It was basically
00:04:51.82 Tony Fowler basically
00:04:52.76 Taylor Kruse at the playground while she's kind of running around doing doing all this these different things I would do like an occasional set of pull-ups or dips or hanging leg raise.
00:04:53.02 Tony Fowler at the playground kind of running around doing all this different things i would do like an occasional set of pull-ups or dips for hanging leg rays
00:05:03.03 Taylor Kruse And I did them on a ladder.
00:05:03.32 Tony Fowler and i did them on a ladder
00:05:04.79 Taylor Kruse So you know was nothing wild.
00:05:05.02 Tony Fowler okay was nothing wild if he like
00:05:06.82 Taylor Kruse I'd be like start it you know first set 10 dips.
00:05:08.02 Tony Fowler started first set ten dips
00:05:11.10 Taylor Kruse couple minutes later second set nine dips.
00:05:11.38 Tony Fowler couple minutes later second set nine dips
00:05:14.26 Taylor Kruse Work down to one.
00:05:14.55 Tony Fowler down to one you know i did that with pullups from like
00:05:15.93 Taylor Kruse You know I did that with pull-ups from like think I went eight to one.
00:05:18.77 Tony Fowler I think I went eight to one.
00:05:21.02 Taylor Kruse Dips I did 10 to one.
00:05:21.30 Tony Fowler dips I did 10 to one.
00:05:22.30 Taylor Kruse Hanging leg raise I did eight to one.
00:05:22.58 Tony Fowler Hanging leg raise I did eight to one. Yeah man nice.
00:05:25.08 Taylor Kruse I'm sore today from that.
00:05:25.39 Tony Fowler so today I was going to say that's some volume. Yeah and it doesn't feel like you're doing that much in the Which kind of like.
00:05:28.82 Taylor Kruse Yeah and it doesn't feel like you're doing that much in the moment. that which I kind of like and but yeah it's an effective dad workout right there.
00:05:34.16 Tony Fowler and But yeah it an effective dad workout right there.
00:05:37.42 Taylor Kruse But I was thinking about how useful like obstacle course kind of play is.
00:05:37.68 Tony Fowler But I was thinking about how useful like obstacle course kind of play is.
00:05:43.61 Taylor Kruse We actually talk about that too through the neuro lens sometimes but um yeah just kind of like
00:05:43.90 Tony Fowler We actually talk about that too through the neuro lens sometimes. But... Yeah just kind of like it's almost like you're you're choosing new options you're choosing different options you're trying to figure things out kind of like problem solving.
00:05:50.73 Taylor Kruse It's almost like you're you're choosing new options. You're choosing different options. You're trying to figure things out. It's kind of like problem solving with movement skills.
00:05:58.18 Tony Fowler with skills There's not really a right or a wrong but the goal is to get from point a to point b at that's super valuable and that stuff is
00:05:59.02 Taylor Kruse There's not really a right or a wrong but the goal is to get from point A to point B. at That's super valuable and that stuff has gone missing from fitness.
00:06:06.14 Tony Fowler missing from fitness you know
00:06:07.33 Taylor Kruse you know
00:06:08.41 Tony Fowler So is there like a a strong cortical activation proprioceptive going on? think
00:06:14.58 Taylor Kruse There certainly is yeah.
00:06:14.84 Tony Fowler I mean it would such a blend of things right? Such blend.
00:06:17.27 Taylor Kruse Yeah there certainly is.
00:06:17.72 Tony Fowler But also talk a lot about obstacle course stuff involving the thalamus.
00:06:19.93 Taylor Kruse I think so yeah. it's i mean It would be such a blend of things right? Such a blend. But we also talk a lot about obstacle course stuff involving ah the thalamus.
00:06:27.90 Tony Fowler course ing i this Remember we talked about thalamus as a switchboard
00:06:31.65 Taylor Kruse Remember we talked about the thalamus as the switchboard operator. We were talking about it as far as like thalamic conditioning goes with things that are hard.
00:06:40.29 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:06:41.88 Taylor Kruse Some of that obstacle course stuff kind of fits in there too.
00:06:42.23 Tony Fowler of that obstacle course stuff kind of fits in there too yeah there's a lot of
00:06:45.66 Taylor Kruse um Yeah there's a lot of areas you know but it's such a healthy thing to do.
00:06:48.92 Tony Fowler curious you know but it's such a healthy thing to do
00:06:51.70 Taylor Kruse And if you think about it it's so real world you know like problem solving using your body it's not just up down you know left right push pull.
00:06:51.96 Tony Fowler if you think about it it's so real world you know like problem solving yeah your body it's not just up down right push pull So ah Teddy Roosevelt I forget if I was reading his memoir or a biography about him. I i forget.
00:07:11.42 Tony Fowler um But apparently he would play a game with his his brothers and his dad when he was a kid. And there the game was we would have to go from point A to point B in a straight line no matter what.
00:07:25.91 Tony Fowler And so maybe I've said this on the podcast before. I don't remember. Yeah. But you know it's like if there's a tree in the way like you cannot walk around the tree. If there's a house in the way you cannot walk around the house.
00:07:34.26 Taylor Kruse ha
00:07:37.36 Tony Fowler And so it seems like quite ah quite a challenge sometimes to just go from one place to another without the option of of going around it.
00:07:47.99 Taylor Kruse Totally.
00:07:48.04 Tony Fowler You'd have to go over everything.
00:07:48.27 Taylor Kruse And you know you you want to know what else I really like?
00:07:50.28 Tony Fowler want to know what else really like?
00:07:50.87 Taylor Kruse And you can try this in your this you can add this to your little rolling training.
00:07:52.16 Tony Fowler You can try can add this rolling
00:07:57.39 Taylor Kruse Basically you could do fun stuff like getting up and down off the floor but you for example i'll I'll sometimes say to people I want you to get up and down off the floor over and over and over again for one minute but you have to use a different strategy every single time.
00:07:57.63 Tony Fowler Basically you do fun stuff like getting up and down off the floor but you for example i'll i'll sometimes say to people i want you to get up and down off the floor over and over and over again for one minute but you have to use a different strategy every single time which is kind of neat and then we also play some fun ones where it's like i want you to get up and down off the ground but you can't use your right arm and then or you can't use your left arm and then you can kind of you know no arms and
00:08:13.46 Taylor Kruse which is kind of neat. And then we also play some fun ones where it's like I want you to get up and down off the ground but you can't use your right arm. and then you can Or you can't use your left arm.
00:08:24.46 Taylor Kruse And then you can kind of you know no arms. And you can even go you can't use your right leg.
00:08:27.29 Tony Fowler even got use your right leg
00:08:28.86 Taylor Kruse You know it's it's really really fun.
00:08:29.53 Tony Fowler you know it's it's really It becomes a puzzle. Yeah yeah that's really interesting.
00:08:32.02 Taylor Kruse Yes exactly. Really really good thing to just kind of add into even if you only have a few minutes that could be part of a warmup little skills session.
00:08:33.69 Tony Fowler Yeah. even if you'll need a few minutes that could be part of a warmup little skills session i think that stuff goes a long way
00:08:40.02 Taylor Kruse I think that stuff goes a long way.
00:08:42.29 Tony Fowler Yeah I could see some some ah transference to jujitsu as well.
00:08:47.77 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:08:48.05 Tony Fowler And just like being able to get up in different ways. Yeah.
00:08:51.27 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm. No doubt.
00:08:53.27 Tony Fowler Very cool. Very cool. Well sometimes when I use my Indian clubs um I kind of notice a little bit of light carpal tunnel-y tightness or tingling.
00:09:06.34 Taylor Kruse Oh really?
00:09:08.26 Tony Fowler And it's usually because you know I'm sitting at the computer for long hours of the day or even worse if I'm holding my phone and looking at my phone for a long time.
00:09:13.66 Taylor Kruse A lot.
00:09:21.24 Tony Fowler I noticed that that can kind of kind of cause it to flare up. And then the you know the Indian club is just telling me that that's there you know ah by going through that motion.
00:09:30.89 Taylor Kruse Right. Yep.
00:09:32.50 Tony Fowler So I wanted to talk about kind of these repetitive use or repetitive motion. There's a lot of words repetitive strain injury symptoms and kind of just get your take on them both from a you know neuro perspective but also kind of an...
00:09:54.69 Tony Fowler in up Let me reframe that. Not not both from a neuro perspective like both from a what's going on when people talk about these injuries and and what are maybe some misconceptions about this stuff?
00:10:06.46 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:10:09.21 Taylor Kruse Sure.
00:10:10.58 Tony Fowler And then also what are some practical things we can do with applied neurology that might provide some relief right?
00:10:16.63 Taylor Kruse Nice. Nice. Yeah you know the I think I've laughed and told you this before but the thing that I'm asked about most in DMs and stuff is tennis elbow and golfer's elbow.
00:10:26.65 Tony Fowler in DMs and stuff is tennis elbow and golfer's elbow. I get DMs about that almost every single day.
00:10:32.25 Taylor Kruse I get DMs about that almost every single day people want to know.
00:10:35.95 Tony Fowler People want to know and it's become this sort of inside joke to those who actually follow enough to pick up on the inside joke but I'll put stuff in the stories occasionally and I'm making like a pissed-off face.
00:10:36.55 Taylor Kruse And it's become this sort of inside joke to those who actually follow enough to pick up on the inside joke but I'll put stuff in the stories occasionally and I'm making like a you know like a pissed off face.
00:10:47.38 Tony Fowler You ask me about tennis elbow or golfer's elbow.
00:10:47.51 Taylor Kruse And I'll be like if you ask me about tennis elbow or golfer's elbow I refuse to speak to you ever again.
00:10:51.64 Tony Fowler i would refuse to speak to you ever again
00:10:53.40 Taylor Kruse Like I do this every once in a while and definitely certain people keep picking up on it and
00:10:54.33 Tony Fowler I do this every once in a while and definitely certain people keep picking up on it and they kind of laugh back with me and other people are confused.
00:10:58.52 Taylor Kruse They kind of laugh back with me and other people are confused. they're like why?
00:11:01.67 Tony Fowler They're like why?
00:11:01.84 Taylor Kruse Why don't you want to talk to me about this?
00:11:02.15 Tony Fowler Why don't you want to talk to me about this?
00:11:03.48 Taylor Kruse But I get asked about those two things constantly.
00:11:03.79 Tony Fowler But I get asked about those two things constantly and people really struggle with the tennis elbow golfer's elbow kind of issues.
00:11:06.34 Taylor Kruse And people really struggle with the the tennis elbow golfer's elbow kind of issues.
00:11:15.09 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:11:15.58 Taylor Kruse um Yeah it's um it's interesting.
00:11:15.93 Tony Fowler Yeah it's it's interesting you know and and I think there's there's there's things I can share you know tools that i think we can apply there.
00:11:18.50 Taylor Kruse you know and And I think there's there's interest there's things I can share you know tools that I think we can apply there. A lot of people definitely are you know not sure what to do because the pain is pretty chronic and lasts a long time and it starts to feel like it's...
00:11:24.79 Tony Fowler A lot of people definitely are you know not sure what to do because the pain is pretty chronic and lasts long time.
00:11:35.54 Tony Fowler It starts to feel like it's it becomes an overwhelming thing because it seems like nothing actually helps it.
00:11:36.79 Taylor Kruse It becomes an overwhelming thing because it seems like nothing actually helps it.
00:11:41.42 Tony Fowler Yeah we should go over some stuff that can can help folks with with those two particular issues we want to know
00:11:41.46 Taylor Kruse But yeah we should go over some stuff that can that can help folks with with those two particular issues. But want to know how I kind of want to begin this?
00:11:47.48 Tony Fowler i kind of want to begin this Okay.
00:11:49.21 Taylor Kruse is i i want i want to um I kind of want to immediately do a little bit of like debunking debunking almost um if you want to call it that.
00:11:49.36 Tony Fowler is i want i want to ah kind of want to immediately do a little bit of like debunking almost if you want to call it that
00:11:59.30 Taylor Kruse The...
00:11:59.90 Tony Fowler the
00:12:00.98 Taylor Kruse The idea of calling these tendon issues because if we're talking about repetitive motion injury or repetitive motion issues or strain tendon issues are probably what people are most familiar with.
00:12:01.37 Tony Fowler idea of calling these tendon issues we're talking about repetitive motion injury or repetitive motion issues or strain tendon issues are probably what people are most familiar with.
00:12:16.86 Taylor Kruse Of course we have other types of repetitive motion type injury like stress fractures and things like that.
00:12:16.92 Tony Fowler Of course we have other types of repetitive motion type injury like stress fractures and things like that.
00:12:23.90 Taylor Kruse But I think typically our conversations probably always go to tendons.
00:12:24.28 Tony Fowler But think typically our conversations probably always go to tendons.
00:12:30.04 Taylor Kruse i I actually don't like the terminology repetitive motion injury or repetitive motion issue at all.
00:12:30.36 Tony Fowler i actually don't like the terminology repetitive motion injury or repetitive motion issue at all.
00:12:40.74 Taylor Kruse It's just not a good description of what's probably happening in terms of why a person has developed the issues because repetitive motion implies that you're moving too much and there's no such thing as moving too much.
00:12:41.06 Tony Fowler It's just not a good description what's probably happening in terms of why a person has developed the issues because repetitive motion implies that you're moving too much.
00:12:55.78 Tony Fowler There's no such thing as moving too much.
00:12:59.35 Taylor Kruse right But there is such thing as moving too much or let's say too little on an unhealthy foundation.
00:12:59.78 Tony Fowler Right. there is such thing as moving too much or let's say too little on an unhealthy foundation.
00:13:11.61 Taylor Kruse So to say that you have tennis elbow because you play too much tennis is kind of like well are are you saying that your body can't play tennis?
00:13:12.05 Tony Fowler So to say that you have tennis elbow because you play too much tennis is kind of like well are you saying that your body can't play tennis?
00:13:23.20 Taylor Kruse Right. Like just because you keep hitting this you know backhand or whatever and you're using your forearm muscles like your tendons are inflamed now from that.
00:13:24.60 Tony Fowler Like just because you keep hitting this you know backhand or whatever and you're using your forearm muscles. your tendons are explained now from that
00:13:32.79 Taylor Kruse You play tennis how many times a week?
00:13:33.18 Tony Fowler You play tennis how many times a week?
00:13:34.71 Taylor Kruse Some people would say like I don't even average playing once a week but I still have tennis elbow.
00:13:35.02 Tony Fowler Some people would say like I don't even average playing once a week but I still have tennis elbow.
00:13:40.95 Taylor Kruse Some people would say oh I play every day.
00:13:41.59 Tony Fowler Some people would say oh I play every day right?
00:13:43.35 Taylor Kruse Right. and it's just like people have different stories about about their frequency of playing.
00:13:43.96 Tony Fowler It's just like people have different stories about about their frequency of playing.
00:13:49.17 Taylor Kruse And then you have people that in my DMs are laughing.
00:13:49.61 Tony Fowler Then you have people that in my DMs are laughing.
00:13:52.21 Taylor Kruse They're like I have tennis elbow.
00:13:52.51 Tony Fowler They're like I have tennis elbow.
00:13:53.13 Taylor Kruse I don't play tennis.
00:13:53.43 Tony Fowler I don't play tennis.
00:13:55.49 Taylor Kruse It's like very very odd right?
00:13:55.76 Tony Fowler It's like very very odd right?
00:13:57.94 Taylor Kruse um And that's part of the reason why people are so confused.
00:13:58.26 Tony Fowler And that's part of the reason why people are so confused.
00:14:00.50 Taylor Kruse But there's no such thing as like moving too much because that's what we are designed to do.
00:14:00.82 Tony Fowler but there's no such thing as like moving too much because that's what were designed to do.
00:14:05.30 Taylor Kruse But there is such thing as moving too much or too little if we're thinking um you know if we consider that there's foundational things that are that are off right?
00:14:05.59 Tony Fowler But there is such thing as moving too much or too little if we're thinking of you know if we consider that there's foundational things that are that are off right but your body can handle it right if you're conditioned properly and if you are healthy enough.
00:14:14.23 Taylor Kruse But your body can handle it. right? If you're conditioned properly and if you are healthy enough. and And I think our conversation probably at some point is going to talk about some of the health things because
00:14:23.00 Tony Fowler And I think our conversation probably at some point is going to talk about some of the health things because
00:14:28.15 Taylor Kruse um you know interestingly enough over the years of just observation just meeting people talking to them working with clients taking their history I was thinking about this deeply before our our podcast.
00:14:30.04 Tony Fowler you know interestingly enough over the years of just observation just meeting people talking to them working with clients taking their history. I was thinking about this deeply before our podcast.
00:14:47.51 Taylor Kruse And I could not think of a single client ever and I've had a lot of folks mention tendon issues couldn't think of a single client ever that had a tendon problem that they were calling a repetitive use injury like a tennis elbow or something that didn't have some kind of metabolic concern.
00:14:47.83 Tony Fowler And i could not think of a single client ever. I've had lot of folks mention tendon issues. Couldn't think of a single client ever. that had a tendon problem that they were calling a repetitive use injury like a tennis elbow or something that didn't have some kind of metabolic concern.
00:15:10.26 Taylor Kruse So yeah the person might say hey I've got tennis elbow I play tennis or I work with my hands a lot or whatever.
00:15:10.65 Tony Fowler So yeah the person might say hey I've got tennis elbow I play tennis or I work with my hands a lot or whatever.
00:15:18.65 Taylor Kruse But through working with them I would always find out that they needed nutritional support or they they were showing signs of some sort of metabolic imbalance and they had breathing um you know pattern dysfunction.
00:15:18.94 Tony Fowler But through working with them I would always find out that they needed nutritional support or they they were showing signs of some sort of metabolic imbalance and they had breathing you know pattern dysfunction.
00:15:34.45 Taylor Kruse And you know perhaps they had a history of things that could interrupt energy um uptake right from their food whether you know gut issues
00:15:34.77 Tony Fowler And you know perhaps they had a history of things that could interrupt energy uptake right from their food whether you know gut issues hormonal things whatever the case might be.
00:15:48.89 Taylor Kruse hormonal things whatever the case might be. And I just found it interesting right?
00:15:50.97 Tony Fowler And i just found it interesting right?
00:15:52.45 Taylor Kruse It's like I'm i'm sort of just thinking about all these people.
00:15:52.73 Tony Fowler It's like I'm i'm sort of just thinking about all
00:15:56.31 Taylor Kruse And it's it's it's been very clear to me over the years that very few people get tendon issue just from overtraining.
00:15:56.66 Tony Fowler and it's It's been very clear to me over the years that very few people get a tendon issue just from overtraining.
00:16:06.38 Taylor Kruse it's it's people I think it happens but realistically when they develop tendon issues that are chronic over time there's more at play.
00:16:07.30 Tony Fowler I think it happens. But realistically when they develop tendon issues that are chronic over time there's more at play.
00:16:15.34 Taylor Kruse there's There's more going on for sure.
00:16:15.87 Tony Fowler There's more going on for sure.
00:16:17.78 Taylor Kruse So you know for what it's worth yeah I mean that's just observation and just talking to people.
00:16:17.91 Tony Fowler so Fascinating. What it's worth yeah. I mean that's just observation and just talking to people.
00:16:24.08 Taylor Kruse And then so i did I did search that because it used to be that you know the search the searchability of things has become so incredible.
00:16:24.38 Tony Fowler And and so i did I did search that. cause it used to be that you know the search the searchability of things has become so incredible
00:16:31.19 Taylor Kruse um It's like using AI to to get get summaries and stuff on on research and everything it's it's wild.
00:16:33.10 Tony Fowler It's like using AI to get summaries and stuff on on research and everything. It's wild.
00:16:39.70 Taylor Kruse Really good for a guy like me because I really don't intend on going deep into the literature and trying to find this stuff.
00:16:39.99 Tony Fowler Really good for a guy like me because I really don't intend on going deep into the literature and trying to find this stuff.
00:16:46.26 Taylor Kruse um I was searching before our podcast here like simple stuff like tendon issues
00:16:47.93 Tony Fowler I was searching before our podcast here like simple stuff like can tending issues.
00:16:54.46 Taylor Kruse tendon issues I forget exactly how I the search terms but i was basically like can tendon issues be present because of metabolic concerns?
00:16:57.40 Tony Fowler I forget exactly how I... search term both basically like intended used be present in terms of metabolic concerns
00:17:06.26 Taylor Kruse And tons of stuff came up and I was like whoa that's awesome.
00:17:07.30 Tony Fowler funns of stuff came up and i was like whoa that's awesome it never really used to be like that i'd be like
00:17:10.01 Taylor Kruse It never really used to be like that. I feel like I wasn't able to to find stuff like that but it went on to give me um quite a few research articles on metabolic syndromes and the correlation to different tendon issues.
00:17:12.90 Tony Fowler wasn't able to and stuff like that. But it went on to give me quite a few research articles on metabolic syndrome.
00:17:26.23 Taylor Kruse And then they you know just kind of summarized whether it was like diabetic issues or just unstable blood sugar.
00:17:26.58 Tony Fowler then they you know just kind of summarized whether it was like diabetic issues or just unstable blood sugar they had a whole list of different metabolic concerns
00:17:34.41 Taylor Kruse they had a whole list of different metabolic concerns saying these are these are things that commonly lead to ah what essentially was described as a reduced quality in tendons.
00:17:37.94 Tony Fowler saying these are these are things that commonly lead to what essentially was described as a reduced quality in tendons.
00:17:48.98 Taylor Kruse they talked They said stiffness they said inflammatory conditions of of tendons they they talked about weakness of tendons.
00:17:49.62 Tony Fowler They said stiffness. They said inflammatory conditions of of tendons. they They talked about weakness of tendons. It was just interesting to actually see that because it really matches with what I feel like I have observed over the years but I wasn't necessarily able to be like hey other other things are other resources are pointing to this too.
00:17:56.66 Taylor Kruse But it was just interesting to actually see that. Because it really matches with what I feel like I have observed over the years. But I wasn't necessarily able to be like hey you know other other things are other resources are pointing to this too you know.
00:18:12.15 Tony Fowler you know Yeah I mean it's interesting when there's multiple variables at play as as there often are right? Because you know even even in my presentation of this as I experience it I attributed you know the way that I'm sitting at a desk working at a computer to be causal right?
00:18:19.12 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:18:35.35 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:18:35.67 Tony Fowler And that that's that's my experience right? But that does not... preclude that there's also metabolic or inflammatory or gut or these other more global systemic issues right that that could be leading to that.
00:18:49.50 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:18:51.26 Tony Fowler And then this is the thing that pushes me over right? Exactly.
00:18:54.39 Taylor Kruse Exactly. And then it yes for sure.
00:18:56.40 Tony Fowler And it yes.
00:18:58.39 Taylor Kruse And then also in in the case like kind of what you're describing with more of like a carpal tunnel thing which might you know it may be involving you know like like the median nerve for example ah there could be other levels to that right? If we look at the eight levels and start talking neuro
00:19:15.48 Taylor Kruse um But then also disuse. Like a lot of times people do get these they have these tendon complaints. And one of the things that they tell you is well it's not that I move too much it's that I move too little but I'm sustaining a specific position for a long period of time.
00:19:23.10 Tony Fowler they tell you is well it's not that I move too much it's that I move too little but I'm sustaining a specific position for a long period of time.
00:19:32.12 Taylor Kruse So it's almost like you're doing isometrics very very low grade isometrics.
00:19:32.54 Tony Fowler So it's almost like you're doing isometrics very very low-grade isometrics and eventually that becomes threatening.
00:19:36.97 Taylor Kruse And eventually that becomes threatening. you know So there's definitely there's definitely different ways to look at this kind of kind of thing for sure.
00:19:40.99 Tony Fowler So there's definitely definitely different ways to look at this kind of kind of thing for sure.
00:19:46.94 Taylor Kruse But yeah it's important if you're you know for our listeners if they've been on the hunt for a long time trying to find solutions to tendon issues it's important to look at the whole picture.
00:19:47.35 Tony Fowler But yeah it's important here you know for our listeners if
00:19:54.42 Tony Fowler is important to look at whole picture
00:19:58.62 Taylor Kruse It's very easy to get distracted by an elbow that hurts.
00:19:58.94 Tony Fowler it's very easy to get distracted by an elbow that hurts great or a wrist that hurts I mean we all get seduced by that and we all fall victim to wanting to chase pain like my elbow hurts it must be an elbow problem but I mean anyone who knows even a little bit about health in the human body it's really just an ecosystem every system is working to
00:20:03.67 Taylor Kruse or a wrist that hurts. I mean we all get seduced by that and we all fall victim to wanting to chase pain. Like my elbow hurts it must be an elbow problem.
00:20:16.02 Taylor Kruse But I mean yeah Anyone who knows even a little bit about health in the human body it's really just an ecosystem. Every system is working together.
00:20:27.62 Taylor Kruse No system works alone. I mean it really can't be as simple as elbow pain and elbow problem every time.
00:20:31.48 Tony Fowler elbow pain elbow problem every time
00:20:34.52 Taylor Kruse So we got to look at so many other layers to it.
00:20:35.00 Tony Fowler we've got to look at so many other layers to it.
00:20:38.10 Taylor Kruse And it's yeah that metabolic one's an important one for sure.
00:20:38.46 Tony Fowler And it's yeah that metabolic one's an important one for sure.
00:20:43.22 Taylor Kruse And even if it is a metabolic issue it does not mean that we cannot begin to affect it in a positive way with the tools that we have.
00:20:43.58 Tony Fowler And even if it is a metabolic issue it does not mean that we cannot begin to affect it in a positive way with the tools that we have.
00:20:53.11 Taylor Kruse right um I'm a kind of a case of that.
00:20:53.58 Tony Fowler Right? I'm a kind of a case of that.
00:20:55.27 Taylor Kruse I mean i taught i I described somewhat recently in a podcast my issue that I had over last summer into the fall with like sciatic pain.
00:20:55.62 Tony Fowler I mean I just thought i I described somewhat recently in a podcast my issue that i had over last summer into the fall with like sciatic pain
00:21:08.41 Taylor Kruse It was so easy for me to just think I must have an entrapment.
00:21:08.73 Tony Fowler It was so easy for me to just think I must have an entrapment.
00:21:12.95 Taylor Kruse Like every single feeling I had was saying entrapment just something's going on Maybe it's my piriformis.
00:21:13.37 Tony Fowler Like single feeling I had was saying entrapment. Just something's going on. Maybe it's my piriformis.
00:21:22.80 Taylor Kruse I don't know.
00:21:23.11 Tony Fowler I don't know.
00:21:23.36 Taylor Kruse Maybe it's this that the other thing.
00:21:23.67 Tony Fowler Maybe it's this that the other thing.
00:21:25.69 Taylor Kruse And nothing was helping until I started making progress on the metabolic component of that which was gut health.
00:21:26.01 Tony Fowler And nothing was helping until i started making progress on the metabolic component of that which was gut health.
00:21:35.77 Taylor Kruse Then all of my neuro drills started working.
00:21:36.18 Tony Fowler But then all of my neuro drills started working.
00:21:39.86 Taylor Kruse So by finding kind of the largest threat and beginning to knock it out a little bit that was enough to empty the threat bucket to a certain degree where now other things that I was bringing in other tools then started to help.
00:21:40.25 Tony Fowler So by finding kind of the largest threat and beginning to knock it out a little bit that was enough to empty the threat bucket to a certain degree where now other things that I was bringing in other tools then started to help.
00:21:54.14 Taylor Kruse And that is a lot of the time what it's like for me working with a client.
00:21:54.46 Tony Fowler And that is a lot of the time what it's like for me working with a client.
00:22:00.06 Taylor Kruse If they have longstanding chronic issues we we have to find out some of the larger threats start approaching them addressing them in whatever way is necessary.
00:22:00.48 Tony Fowler We have long-standing chronic issues. we We have to find out some of the larger things. start approaching them addressing them in whatever way is necessary and even small shifts in those areas
00:22:08.70 Taylor Kruse And even small shifts in those areas can then allow us to find entry points easier with some of the tools that we have which then ultimately everything sort of starts working together.
00:22:12.12 Tony Fowler and then allow us to find entry points easier with some of the tools that we have which then ultimately everything sort of starts working together.
00:22:20.35 Taylor Kruse There's like a snowball effect as you start to apply the right drills.
00:22:20.73 Tony Fowler It's like a snowball effect as you start to apply the right drills.
00:22:24.76 Taylor Kruse Actually i I was talking to a um student of ours recently who's very active in our community.
00:22:25.11 Tony Fowler Actually i I was talking to a student of ours recently who's very active in our community.
00:22:32.25 Taylor Kruse It was kind of a cool interaction because she was saying that over maybe a year ago she had watched one of my member calls and we were talking about tennis elbow golf golfer's elbow and tendon issues.
00:22:32.63 Tony Fowler It was kind of a cool interaction because she was saying that over maybe a year ago she had watched one of my member calls and we were taught
00:22:47.67 Tony Fowler now just sharing some ideas like we are now.
00:22:47.70 Taylor Kruse And i was just sharing some ideas like we are now. And she had asked me about a specific client after that call.
00:22:51.45 Tony Fowler And she had asked me about a specific client after that call.
00:22:55.35 Taylor Kruse And because the call resonated with her and she was like I've got this client with this chronic tendon issues.
00:22:55.74 Tony Fowler And because the call resonated with her and she's like I've got this client with theres chronic tendon issues.
00:23:00.43 Taylor Kruse What do you think you know I should do?
00:23:00.74 Tony Fowler What do you think you know i should do?
00:23:02.43 Taylor Kruse How should I start?
00:23:02.78 Tony Fowler How should I start?
00:23:04.15 Taylor Kruse And she gave me the history.
00:23:04.50 Tony Fowler And she gave me the history and I was like you know what that history you're giving me makes me think there's some sort of significant metabolic threat.
00:23:05.31 Taylor Kruse And I was like you know what? That history you're giving me makes me think there's some sort of significant metabolic threat. And I think you can still use ABC tools but take more history get to know them see what they tell you.
00:23:12.54 Tony Fowler And I think you can still use ABC tools but take more history get to know them see what they tell you.
00:23:20.73 Taylor Kruse You might find out more about this case.
00:23:21.05 Tony Fowler You might find out more about this case.
00:23:23.64 Taylor Kruse Well a year later recently she messaged me because she had gone back to that same call to review it.
00:23:23.99 Tony Fowler a year later recently messaged me because she had gone back to that same call to review it and she had forgot
00:23:30.86 Taylor Kruse And she had forgot that she had commented and wrote to me about this specific client.
00:23:32.98 Tony Fowler and she had commented and wrote to me about this specific client
00:23:36.98 Taylor Kruse And she that client had since returned to work with her.
00:23:37.30 Tony Fowler and that client had since returned to work with her and this particular student of ours is really kicking butt in the course i mean that in in that amount of time what she has learned has been
00:23:40.95 Taylor Kruse And this particular student of ours is really kicking butt in the course. I mean that in in that amount of time what she has learned has been has been outstanding.
00:23:49.98 Tony Fowler has been outstanding
00:23:50.82 Taylor Kruse And so she's thinking completely different.
00:23:51.42 Tony Fowler so she's thinking completely different
00:23:53.37 Taylor Kruse This woman came back to work with her.
00:23:53.72 Tony Fowler this woman came back to work with her
00:23:55.74 Taylor Kruse She took a history again started testing and
00:23:56.41 Tony Fowler she took a history again started testing and
00:24:01.11 Taylor Kruse she immediately thought this doesn't seem right.
00:24:01.59 Tony Fowler She immediately thought this doesn't seem right.
00:24:04.38 Taylor Kruse We have to get you she took a history and found out that at least her something that the client said to her triggered her thinking around the fact that she might have mold exposure.
00:24:04.66 Tony Fowler We have to get you. She took a history and found out that at least her something that the client said to her triggered her thinking around the fact that she might have mold exposure.
00:24:16.86 Tony Fowler and And she had had experience with that herself.
00:24:17.21 Taylor Kruse and And she had had experience with that herself so she's not a stranger to that.
00:24:20.74 Tony Fowler So she's not a stranger to that.
00:24:22.30 Taylor Kruse She knows kind of the symptoms and and everything.
00:24:22.71 Tony Fowler She knows kind of the symptoms and everything.
00:24:25.54 Taylor Kruse So anyways she referred the lady out to get testing for um exposure to mold.
00:24:26.23 Tony Fowler So anyways she referred the lady out to get testing for her. exposure to mold
00:24:33.37 Taylor Kruse And the...
00:24:33.88 Tony Fowler and the
00:24:35.73 Taylor Kruse workup that the lady got back had the worst mycotoxins my my I don't know if I don't I'm not saying if I don't know if I'm saying it perfectly right but um anyways the lady's report said she had the worst mold exposure
00:24:36.01 Tony Fowler workup that the lady got back has the worst Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:24:47.34 Tony Fowler anyways the ladies' report said she had the worst mold exposure
00:24:51.45 Taylor Kruse or my student had said this woman had the worst mold exposure she'd ever seen on paper.
00:24:51.74 Tony Fowler my student had said this woman had the worst it can mold exposure she'd ever seens the paper
00:24:57.34 Taylor Kruse So there you go.
00:24:57.50 Tony Fowler so there you go and she had chronic inflammatory conditions a little of her body that were presenting as tendon problems
00:24:59.26 Taylor Kruse And she had chronic inflammatory conditions all over her body that were presenting as tendon problems. So our student was laughing and and I think proud of herself at the same time.
00:25:06.94 Tony Fowler our student was laughing and and i think proud of herself at the same time when she was like i can't believe i totally forgot i even mentioned this case to you back then she goes when you said that to me it went over my head
00:25:10.43 Taylor Kruse And she was like I can't believe I totally forgot I even mentioned this case to you. Back then she goes when you said that to me it went over my head. Like I wasn't really sure what the connection would be.
00:25:18.36 Tony Fowler i wasn't really sure what the connection would be she said now i picked up on it instantly
00:25:20.34 Taylor Kruse She said now I picked up on it instantly. And here we are.
00:25:23.35 Tony Fowler here we are i get a second chance of this client as a lady left for a bit
00:25:23.51 Taylor Kruse I get a second chance with this client because the lady had left for a bit. I get a second chance with this client.
00:25:27.35 Tony Fowler get a second chance with this client now already we're on a better path
00:25:28.39 Taylor Kruse And now already we're on a better path. So that was fascinating to me you know knowing that so many people actually have these underlying things going on when they have these tendon issues.
00:25:31.99 Tony Fowler so that was fascinating to me Yeah. you know knowing that so many people actually have these underlying things going on issues So one of the things we talk about with like fuel problems which is kind of shorthand for for metabolic issues right?
00:25:45.46 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm.
00:25:49.10 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:25:49.21 Taylor Kruse Yeah exactly.
00:25:51.93 Tony Fowler is that you might be playing whack-a-mole with pain or problems right? Like today it's my wrist but tomorrow it's my hip or my back and then I have neck pain here.
00:25:56.18 Taylor Kruse Big time.
00:26:00.89 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:26:01.88 Tony Fowler and And so it's like by trying to attack the local problem with pain you're sort of missing the the global problem of metabolism.
00:26:13.37 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:26:13.69 Tony Fowler But what about the person where it's like it only presents in this way in this very specific location in this very specific way.
00:26:17.53 Taylor Kruse is
00:26:23.19 Tony Fowler Is that a point? does Does that mean we need to still look as closely at metabolic issues if there's no other corroborating pain or or not?
00:26:35.54 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Yeah. yeah so i think... Metabolics could still be for sure at play. Typically what can happen when you look at joints and and tendons is that an inflammatory process can begin.
00:26:50.37 Taylor Kruse And I think that's what typically is happening kind of long term with tendon issues is there there ends up being a more constant inflammatory process localized to the tendons at play.
00:26:55.37 Tony Fowler there ends up being a more constant inflammatory process localized to the tendons at play.
00:27:05.34 Taylor Kruse And so perhaps that is more of like a long-term effect of metabolic dysregulation if if that's what the case is.
00:27:05.77 Tony Fowler And so perhaps that is more of like a long-term effect of metabolic dysregulation if that's what the case is.
00:27:13.40 Taylor Kruse And that's very possible.
00:27:13.82 Tony Fowler And that's very possible.
00:27:14.40 Taylor Kruse I mean the body is so odd but smart in the way that it deals with issues depending on what they are.
00:27:15.02 Tony Fowler I mean the body is so odd but smart in the way that it deals with issues depending on what they are.
00:27:26.56 Taylor Kruse Basically every kind of pain output that we're experiencing is a protective output to some degree.
00:27:26.70 Tony Fowler Basically every kind of pain output that we're experiencing is a protective output to some degree.
00:27:32.89 Taylor Kruse The problem is
00:27:33.26 Tony Fowler The problem is when you experience a protective output over and over and over again it becomes more chronic and longstanding it's like your brain and body keep using the same software.
00:27:34.87 Taylor Kruse When you experience a protective output over and over and over again and and it becomes more chronic and longstanding it's like your brain and body keep using the same software.
00:27:48.98 Taylor Kruse It's like the program keeps running even when there might not be a serious issue or an issue at all.
00:27:49.28 Tony Fowler It's like the program keeps running even when there might not be a serious issue or an issue at all. Right.
00:27:57.88 Taylor Kruse so
00:27:57.91 Tony Fowler It becomes like hypersensitive to a specific.
00:28:00.12 Taylor Kruse It's hypersensitivity.
00:28:01.18 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:28:01.89 Taylor Kruse It's hypersensitivity and in kind of a central windup as as we sometimes call it where the nervous system is still behaving as if there is a problem because you basically habitual habituated an inflammatory condition in that body part.
00:28:02.20 Tony Fowler It's hypersensitivity and kind of a central windup is as we sometimes call it where the nervous system is still behaving as if there is a problem because you basically habituated habituated an inflammatory condition in that body part.
00:28:18.36 Taylor Kruse And so sometimes my my thought is a lot of times when I'm helping people overcome this stuff sometimes there really isn't even a problem.
00:28:18.65 Tony Fowler And so sometimes my my thought is a lot of times when I'm helping people overcome this stuff is sometimes there really isn't even a problem.
00:28:27.16 Taylor Kruse Like if they've had a tissue an insult to the tissue at some point like there actually has been tissue damage or localized some localized tissue
00:28:27.45 Tony Fowler Like if they've had a tissue an insult to the tissue at some point like there actually has been tissue damage or localized some localized tissue problem.
00:28:37.53 Taylor Kruse problem A lot of times I feel like we're not even fixing that because it might not need fixing.
00:28:39.00 Tony Fowler A lot of times I feel like we're not even.
00:28:43.41 Taylor Kruse The tissue might actually be okay but we're still the person is still experiencing kind of this this threat or sensitivity.
00:28:47.10 Tony Fowler experience and kind of this this threat or sensitivity and so in my mind it's like we're we're almost interfering with a program that's still running until we instill enough safety on the brain and nervous system for it to go oh we don't need to run this program right we we don't have to we don't have to invest in in this anymore so to me a lot of times that's just this idea of and this is why i'll go ahead
00:28:51.32 Taylor Kruse And so in my mind it's like we're we're almost interfering with a program that's still running until we instill enough safety on the brain and nervous system for it to go oh we don't need to run this program anymore.
00:29:05.02 Taylor Kruse you know we we we don't have to We don't have to invest in in this anymore. So to me a lot of times that's just this idea of reducing threat. But well just to your point there in your question yes I still think if it's a localized pain and a person can like point right to it and say this hurts with movement or whatever that you know it still could be it still could have a metabolic component to it.
00:29:15.90 Tony Fowler I just to your point there in your question. Yes I still think if it's a localized pain and a person can like point right to it and say this hurts with movement or whatever that you know it still could be it still could have a metabolic component to it.
00:29:31.61 Taylor Kruse But um usually when people are pointing to a problem and they're able to be that localized about it a lot of times our localized tools can actually do a lot of good.
00:29:31.90 Tony Fowler But usually when people are pointing to a problem and they're able to be that localized about it a lot of times our localized tools can actually do a lot of good.
00:29:43.10 Taylor Kruse You know and that's that's usually a...
00:29:43.38 Tony Fowler You know and that's that's usually a almost a better sign in my eyes sometimes.
00:29:47.38 Taylor Kruse almost a better sign in my eyes sometimes.
00:29:50.51 Tony Fowler Right.
00:29:51.16 Taylor Kruse I feel like I can i can tame that you know a little bit quicker with localized tools.
00:29:51.23 Tony Fowler I feel like I can tame that a little bit quicker with localized tools.
00:29:57.91 Taylor Kruse Doesn't mean that the localized tools are going to solve everything and that it's all about that.
00:29:57.98 Tony Fowler It doesn't mean that localized tools are going to solve everything and that it's all about that but I find it more challenging when a person is having the floating pain syndrome as we call it.
00:30:01.51 Taylor Kruse But I find it more challenging when a person is having the floating pain syndrome as we call it things are floating around.
00:30:10.06 Tony Fowler Things are floating around.
00:30:12.02 Taylor Kruse It is very hard on the client to psychologically that can be challenging because their body is constantly grabbing their attention in different body areas.
00:30:12.31 Tony Fowler It is very hard on the client to psychologically. Yeah. It can be challenging because their body is constantly grabbing their attention in different body areas.
00:30:23.00 Taylor Kruse And the the basically what happens is for me the coach what I observe is that a person starts they stop losing
00:30:23.25 Tony Fowler And basically what happens is for me the coach what I observe is that a person starts they stop losing or they begin to lose their executive functions that I need them to have to work through the process.
00:30:31.32 Taylor Kruse or they they begin to lose their executive functions then I need them to have to work through the process.
00:30:39.38 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:30:39.99 Taylor Kruse and And that's the problem with these chronic fuel cases is that when a person loses their executive function to some degree because pain is a problem or nutrition's a problem or breathing's a problem or all of the above it gets harder to work with them because you need them to make good decisions
00:30:40.25 Tony Fowler And that's the problem with these chronic fuel cases is that when a person loses their executive function to some degree because pain is a problem or nutrition a problem or breathing is a problem or all of the above it gets harder to work with them because you need them to make good decisions and understand why we're following the process.
00:30:57.21 Taylor Kruse and understand why we're following a process. And if they can't because they don't have the cognition for that and pain can absolutely interfere with our cognition and decision-making it's way harder you know?
00:31:00.58 Tony Fowler And if they... and because they don't have the cognition for that and pain can absolutely interfere with our cognition and decision making it's way harder you know so it's it's um when someone points to ah an elbow and says ow can you help me with this it just always hurts it's almost like it's easier like it's not it's not as much chaos underneath it you know so in in the world of musicians there's something called the alexander technique
00:31:11.78 Taylor Kruse So it's it's when someone points to ah an elbow and says ow can you help me with this? It just always hurts. It's almost like it's easier. Like it's not as there's not as much chaos underneath it you know?
00:31:32.06 Taylor Kruse Oh yeah. Yeah I've heard of it.
00:31:33.17 Tony Fowler yeah've heard of it Yeah. And so I don't know a ton about it but you know like if you're a guitarist or you're a pianist a lot of what it is is about training good postural hygiene right?
00:31:40.38 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:31:45.75 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:31:45.96 Tony Fowler Like holding things in in good ways and then also um you know releasing tension.
00:31:53.65 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm.
00:31:53.66 Tony Fowler So instead of having tension in your wrist when you're fretting the fingerboard you know like how can you achieve the same motion in a relaxed way? And so it's it's very much like a from Again from my understanding I'm sure someone who's listening who's more familiar would would would do better. but um it's it's very much like a a matter of like training efficiency if I understand.
00:32:18.04 Taylor Kruse Right. And in efficiency if I understand like and we talk about this when we when we teach people how to do a better job. We just did this actually in our our foundations course.
00:32:30.10 Taylor Kruse We call it the elements of efficiency where it's basically just guidelines for like how do you improve your practice of these exercises so that you're not using too much energy when you don't need to?
00:32:32.37 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm. where guidelines for like how you practice of exercises so that you're not using too much energy when don't need to?
00:32:44.57 Taylor Kruse Kind of reminds me of of those type.
00:32:45.93 Tony Fowler That's absolutely right.
00:32:46.81 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:32:46.85 Tony Fowler Yep. And that's really useful for a musician. If you're doing scales and arpeggios and going up and down you know the the scales and to not hold tension and like do it in a way that is fighting against you.
00:32:52.82 Taylor Kruse Totally.
00:32:59.85 Tony Fowler If you can just glide across the
00:33:01.82 Taylor Kruse Big time. Yeah and and when you're doing something so technical that demands so much it's like that tension can be very unconscious.
00:33:12.54 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:33:12.69 Taylor Kruse It can just develop and you don't realize it until you bring awareness to it. Yeah I think that practicing... Anything kind of with those principles is super valuable to learn how to relax more.
00:33:24.76 Tony Fowler Yeah. yeah And I imagine that you know it's like you may be worried about your wrists but they're like also what's your head posture? Like also are you breathing?
00:33:31.59 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:33:32.98 Tony Fowler Don't forget to breathe. A lot of people forget to breathe when they're really concentrating on know
00:33:36.89 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:33:37.30 Tony Fowler fine motor control you know? So I was curious if you were familiar and
00:33:42.68 Taylor Kruse Yeah so yeah a long a long time ago I had a client who was ah a conductor I guess you would say for the Boston Symphony.
00:33:42.90 Tony Fowler um
00:33:51.10 Tony Fowler Cool.
00:33:51.19 Taylor Kruse he He told me all about it because he studied it very deeply.
00:33:52.32 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:33:55.58 Taylor Kruse So i never tried it myself but i was kind of I was very interested to hear what he had to say because at the time he was basically saying a lot of what you're teaching me and showing me is reminding me of of this technique.
00:34:08.73 Tony Fowler Yeah. Isn't that cool? finding Finding the same nuggets of wisdom dispersed throughout.
00:34:12.47 Taylor Kruse Totally.
00:34:14.62 Tony Fowler so So you know kind of as ah as a bridge maybe we can start talking about you know some of the common symptoms that you're getting asked about you know golfer's elbow tennis elbow all all the things that make you
00:34:22.91 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
00:34:27.26 Tony Fowler ah post an angry face on social media.
00:34:29.40 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:30.46 Tony Fowler um But then also like ah if if you know metabolism that's a whole podcast right?
00:34:37.08 Taylor Kruse Right. Right.
00:34:37.67 Tony Fowler Assuming that we've tackled that you know what are some of the other things that you might suggest to someone asking you about these
00:34:39.58 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm.
00:34:44.89 Taylor Kruse Yeah. So the ones I the ones that I get questioned about the most are the tennis elbow the go golfer's elbow the uh jumper's knee or anything related to you know um you know the the patellar area um Achilles right.
00:34:53.91 Tony Fowler neat or anything related to you know
00:35:00.56 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm. Tendinitis bursitis.
00:35:02.72 Taylor Kruse a Achilles tendonitis get asked about that one a lot.
00:35:03.26 Tony Fowler Yeah exactly. Any of that stuff. Again mean I'll be honest with you.
00:35:07.86 Taylor Kruse Um those are the most common any of the itises you know
00:35:09.56 Tony Fowler When people get told they have one of the itises... LAUGHTER
00:35:13.30 Taylor Kruse plant their fat 10 any 10 yep yeah exactly any of that stuff i mean people people ask me about those types of things all the time and again i mean i'll be honest with you when people get told they have one of the itises um uh you know no matter i honestly i don't think it's probably accurate that much it's probably not that accurate right because especially when people are going for like a diagnosis a lot of times
00:35:14.91 Tony Fowler bursitis any of that stuff
00:35:22.26 Tony Fowler again mean i'll be honest with you when people get told they have one of the itiss
00:35:29.53 Tony Fowler you know is
00:35:32.28 Tony Fowler honestly i don't think it's probably accurate that much. It's probably not that accurate. Okay. Right. Because especially when people are going for like a diagnosis a lot of times they're getting a name for their pain and it's just it's risky risky territory or just it's just it's blurry.
00:35:43.85 Taylor Kruse they're getting a name for their pain and it's just it's it's risky it's risky territory or just it's just it's blurry right?
00:35:55.48 Taylor Kruse Like okay your elbow hurts you do you know it's like well you work with your hands a lot or you do play tennis or whatever it is.
00:35:55.77 Tony Fowler like okay your elbow hurts you
00:36:01.78 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:36:03.22 Taylor Kruse Yeah the tendon seems to be sore like let's call it this.
00:36:04.29 Tony Fowler tendon seems to be sore like let's call it this it's really just ends of being a named for
00:36:06.38 Taylor Kruse It's it's really just ends up being a name for pain. At least a great deal of these conditions do.
00:36:10.14 Tony Fowler least a great deal of these conditions right
00:36:13.50 Taylor Kruse right And and you know we talk about pain all the time in the podcast and how weird pain is but you really can't make clear decisions based on pain because pain is a construct of the brain.
00:36:14.94 Tony Fowler talk about paining all the time in the podcast and how weird ta is you really can't make decisions based on because pain is a construct of the brain it does not live in the tissues
00:36:26.91 Taylor Kruse It does not live in the tissues. Okay so any of our listeners who haven't yet heard that here's your here's your moment.
00:36:29.91 Tony Fowler so any of our listeners who haven't yet heard that here's your If your elbow hurts it doesn't mean that you have pain in your elbow.
00:36:35.35 Taylor Kruse If your elbow hurts it doesn't mean that you have pain in your elbow right? The the pain is a construct of brain function and and it's
00:36:41.43 Tony Fowler The pain is a construct of brain function and and it's a collection of so many different things that then eventually if threatening enough your brain decides to create a pain experience.
00:36:45.27 Taylor Kruse ah so a collection of so many different things that then eventually if threatening enough your brain decides to create a pain experience. Now it does not mean that you don't have tissue damage and it does not mean that tissue damage cannot produce pain but it does mean that if tissue damage can produce pain sometimes we can have tissue damage without a pain experience.
00:36:53.84 Tony Fowler Now it does not mean that you don't have tissue damage.
00:37:00.53 Tony Fowler and not produce paint but it does mean that but it does mean that if tissue damage can produce pain sometimes we can have tissue damage without a pain
00:37:10.87 Taylor Kruse And this is what you know you can see in the literature if you just start start searching around for information articles especially on the spinal cord just because they've they've got a lot of research at this point that kind of paints kind of points to modern pain science being correct when when it suggests that you know you can have all these different issues in your spine that we would associate
00:37:11.26 Tony Fowler is what you know you can see in the literature if you just start searching around for information articles and especially on the spinal cord because they they've got a lot of research at this point that kind of paints kind of points to modern pain science being correct when when it suggests that you know you can have all these different issues in your spine.
00:37:35.61 Tony Fowler that we would associate as being negative and causing symptoms but yet there's so many asymptomatic people that end up having some sort of um you know deterioration in the spine or bulging disc or nerve root issues or narrowing of canals or whatever the case might be right so pain's weird right so if your if your elbow hurts your knee hurts
00:37:37.43 Taylor Kruse as being negative and causing symptoms but yet there's so many asymptomatic people that end up having some sort of you know deterioration in the spine or bulging disc or nerve root issues or narrowing of canals or whatever the case might be.
00:37:54.68 Taylor Kruse right So pain's weird. right And so if your if your elbow hurts your knee hurts and it happens to be a tendon area we can't just say it must be the tendon.
00:37:59.48 Tony Fowler happens to be a tendon area can't just say it must be the ten
00:38:05.05 Taylor Kruse Right?
00:38:05.34 Tony Fowler we can't just think that we don't have to you know work with
00:38:05.61 Taylor Kruse We can't just think that we don't have to you know work with the whole system.
00:38:09.78 Tony Fowler system
00:38:10.62 Taylor Kruse But yeah those those issues are the ones that i hear about the most when when talking to people.
00:38:11.19 Tony Fowler yeah those are those issues are the ones that i hear about the most
00:38:18.90 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:38:21.40 Tony Fowler So one of the things that I've tried and that seems to be helpful ah more often than not I would say is just doing a nerve glide through my arm.
00:38:26.32 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm.
00:38:35.78 Taylor Kruse Sure.
00:38:37.08 Tony Fowler when I have that like carpal tunnel thing happening.
00:38:37.22 Taylor Kruse Yep.
00:38:40.63 Tony Fowler Um and so I'll start by doing kind of what she taught me where it's like I'm I'm making the the path of the nerve shorter and then and then slacking and then sort of getting some movement with one part of it like my shoulder or something.
00:38:50.10 Taylor Kruse yep Yeah yeah the slacking. Yep.
00:38:55.83 Taylor Kruse Yep nice.
00:38:56.40 Tony Fowler And then after that I'll do like the full tension one and and do a glide that way.
00:39:00.92 Taylor Kruse Nice. Yeah probably a median nerve for your for you.
00:39:05.68 Tony Fowler That's what it sounds like.
00:39:06.87 Taylor Kruse Yeah. do Do you have your do you have your wrist extended in your palm down and fingers pointed out as far as your yep exactly.
00:39:13.82 Tony Fowler I will do the second for the second one I will. otherwise but yeah
00:39:17.17 Taylor Kruse That's the tensioner.
00:39:18.23 Tony Fowler Yeah the tensioner I will. and And I believe we went through this entire process on a previous podcast as well all about um joint manipulation and nerve glide.
00:39:24.20 Taylor Kruse Yep.
00:39:29.27 Tony Fowler So if you want to get into that even more deeply we have a full episode on that.
00:39:34.39 Taylor Kruse Yeah nice. let's let's talk about Let's unpack that a little bit for our listeners.
00:39:37.04 Tony Fowler that little bit for our listeners.
00:39:37.75 Taylor Kruse And if if if you're looking for things to try right get your yet your pen and paper.
00:39:38.34 Tony Fowler If you're looking for things to try get your pen and paper.
00:39:46.17 Taylor Kruse we'll we'll We'll give you some ideas here.
00:39:47.32 Tony Fowler give you some ideas here.
00:39:47.97 Taylor Kruse So on the topic of neuromechanics this can be quite a useful tool for tendon pain.
00:39:48.32 Tony Fowler So on the topic of neuromechanics this can be quite a useful tool for tendon pain.
00:39:55.52 Taylor Kruse um you know it's It may not be the thing that solves it but sometimes it does.
00:39:58.46 Tony Fowler It may not be the thing that solves it but sometimes it does which means maybe you didn't have as much of a tendon problem as you thought.
00:40:01.88 Taylor Kruse which means maybe you didn't have as much of a tendon problem as you thought.
00:40:05.40 Tony Fowler maybe the peripheral nerve was actually part of it.
00:40:05.72 Taylor Kruse Maybe the peripheral nerve was actually part of it. But that doesn't really matter.
00:40:09.59 Tony Fowler But that doesn't really matter.
00:40:11.42 Taylor Kruse Again like I don't think we can be super sure when we you know when we're listening to you know what diagnosis a person might have or what we think might be the issue.
00:40:11.70 Tony Fowler Again like don't think we can be super sure when we you when we're listening to a diagnosis a person might have or what we think might be the issue.
00:40:23.15 Taylor Kruse That's why I'm more of a tools guy in taking history and just starting the process.
00:40:23.40 Tony Fowler That's why I'm more of a tools guy in taking history and just starting the process. Yeah.
00:40:28.79 Taylor Kruse But if you're going to explore neuromechanics for tendon issues um there are some good ones that we can aim at things like tennis elbow and golfer's elbow.
00:40:29.05 Tony Fowler But if you're going to explore neuromechanics or tendon issues there are some good ones that we can aim at things like tennis elbow and golfer's elbow.
00:40:39.96 Taylor Kruse um What you want to look for and you can you can hit my YouTube page for...
00:40:41.62 Tony Fowler What you want to look for you can you can hit my YouTube page for radial nerve glide.
00:40:45.50 Taylor Kruse a radial nerve glide. I've got a good ah good long form tutorial on radial nerve glide.
00:40:47.57 Tony Fowler We've got a good long-form tutorial on radial nerve glide.
00:40:50.90 Taylor Kruse And so when you're using a neuromechanic drill to effect a pain complaint that you think is tendon related one of the things that you would want to do is just do ah do a Google search
00:40:51.15 Tony Fowler And so when you're using a neuromechanic drill to affect a pain complaint that you think is tendonrelated one of the things that you would want to do is just do a google search for uh the nerves involved with the muscles where you're feeling the issue like i'm trying to think this through as if i don't know any stuff sure yeah but so i'm i'm a person that's been told they have a tennis elbow and so my extensor muscles on the outside of my forearm up near kind of that bony landmark um
00:41:06.21 Taylor Kruse for the nerves involved with the muscles where you're feeling the issue. Like I'm trying to think this through as if I don't know any of the stuff that I know.
00:41:17.21 Taylor Kruse So like so i'm I'm a person that's been told they have a tennis elbow. And so my extensor muscles on the outside of my forearm up near kind of that bony landmark um that condyle of the elbow
00:41:33.72 Tony Fowler con di of the elbow
00:41:36.15 Taylor Kruse hurt and they're sore.
00:41:36.41 Tony Fowler hurt
00:41:38.17 Taylor Kruse And so if you were to look up those muscles you would find basically what is the extensor compartment of the forearm okay?
00:41:38.46 Tony Fowler And so if you were to look up those muscles you would find basically what is the extensor compartment of the forearm.
00:41:49.75 Taylor Kruse And if that were an area that you had a concern you could then look up what nerves are what peripheral nerves are related to or another another way to say it is what nerve supplies those muscles.
00:41:50.07 Tony Fowler And if that were an area that you had a concern you could then look up what nerves are what peripheral nerves are related to or another another way to say it is what nerve supplies those muscles.
00:42:04.50 Taylor Kruse And so that would lead you to radial nerve.
00:42:04.89 Tony Fowler So that would lead you to radial nerve.
00:42:09.17 Taylor Kruse Okay. And so that can be quite useful when you're working with a tennis elbow or any kind of discomfort there on the outside of the elbow into the forearm.
00:42:10.42 Tony Fowler And so that can be quite useful when you're working with a tennis elbow or any kind of discomfort there on the outside of the elbow or the forearm.
00:42:18.94 Taylor Kruse And there's different things you can do to the nerve.
00:42:19.49 Tony Fowler And there's different things you can do to the nerve.
00:42:20.74 Taylor Kruse The one I have on YouTube for radial nerve glide is a tensioner.
00:42:21.06 Tony Fowler The one I have on YouTube for radial nerve glide is a tensioner.
00:42:25.40 Taylor Kruse And we call that a nerve glide which basically you put gentle tension on the nerve and then you move
00:42:25.54 Tony Fowler We call that a nerve glide. Basically you put gentle tension on the nerve and then you move a joint area that the nerve crosses.
00:42:31.42 Taylor Kruse a joint area and which that the nerve crosses and that's a way that you can mobilize it.
00:42:35.72 Tony Fowler and that's a way you can mobilize that Yeah I think of it like flossing almost like you're holding the two sides of the nerve and then you're slowly moving it up and down.
00:42:38.26 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Yep.
00:42:44.15 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm.
00:42:44.79 Tony Fowler Yeah so that would be good there for you know an issue on the outside.
00:42:44.92 Taylor Kruse Exactly. Yeah so that would that would be good there for um you know any issue on the outside. And then for the golfer's elbow
00:42:52.66 Tony Fowler And then for the golfer's elbow we're moving more to the inside.
00:42:55.73 Taylor Kruse We're moving more to the inside. So man this is going to be great Tony.
00:42:58.58 Tony Fowler So man this is going to be great Tony.
00:43:00.44 Taylor Kruse I just realized I can refer people to this podcast now.
00:43:00.75 Tony Fowler I just realized I can refer people to these podcasts After they ask I get like 10.
00:43:04.63 Taylor Kruse After they ask me I get like 10 questions a day on this.
00:43:07.29 Tony Fowler There you go. There you go.
00:43:08.06 Taylor Kruse Yeah yeah nice. um
00:43:12.28 Taylor Kruse it was Tony's idea to do this by the way.
00:43:12.63 Tony Fowler was Tony's idea to do this by the way.
00:43:13.92 Taylor Kruse I was like I'm not talking about this.
00:43:14.23 Tony Fowler i was like no not talking about it.
00:43:16.28 Taylor Kruse ah
00:43:16.99 Tony Fowler literally saw your post and you were like I never want to talk about this again. I was like we should talk about this on the podcast.
00:43:21.75 Taylor Kruse hey
00:43:23.05 Tony Fowler We're moving to the inside of the elbow in which case the muscles there in that inner compartment we'd be thinking more about the ulnar nerve.
00:43:23.70 Taylor Kruse Yeah so we're moving to the inside of the elbow in which case the um muscles there in that inner compartment we'd be thinking more about the ulnar nerve
00:43:36.72 Tony Fowler Mm-hmm.
00:43:37.14 Taylor Kruse which is an interesting interesting one a little harder to describe on the podcast but imagine that you were holding a tray of food like up by your head and your elbow was bent to do it and your fingertips were pointed back at your own head holding that imaginary tray.
00:43:55.58 Taylor Kruse That's the position that you would create with your arm to put tension on the ulnar nerve.
00:43:55.81 Tony Fowler That's the position that you would create with your arm to put tension on the ulnar nerve.
00:44:01.86 Taylor Kruse There's other little nuances to it that you do with the neck and the shoulder but that's the idea.
00:44:02.13 Tony Fowler There's other little nuances to it that do with the neck and the shoulder but that's the idea.
00:44:07.06 Taylor Kruse So the ulnar nerve tensioners or nerve glides or slacking procedures can be quite useful for that one and and potentially median nerve as well.
00:44:07.52 Tony Fowler So the ulnar nerve tensioners or nerve glides or slacking procedures can be quite useful. for that one and and potentially median nerve as well.
00:44:18.42 Taylor Kruse So those are the the three heavy hitters for for stuff around that region.
00:44:18.87 Tony Fowler So those are the the three heavy hitters for for stuff around that region.
00:44:24.41 Taylor Kruse We've got the radial nerve glide.
00:44:24.70 Tony Fowler we've got the radial nerve glide.
00:44:26.37 Taylor Kruse We've got the ulnar and also the median.
00:44:26.65 Tony Fowler We've got the ulnar.
00:44:30.94 Taylor Kruse okay And there's another one that might be worth people's time to.
00:44:31.69 Tony Fowler there's Another one that might be worth people's time to and and again you can find at least a demonstration on my YouTube channel is one for the musculocutaneous nerve.
00:44:35.38 Taylor Kruse and And again you can find at least a demonstration on my YouTube channel. is one for the um musculocutaneous nerve.
00:44:46.78 Taylor Kruse So this is when people are pointing more towards their bicep as where they feel the problem.
00:44:47.19 Tony Fowler So this is when people are pointing more towards their bicep where they feel the problem.
00:44:53.98 Taylor Kruse Yeah still maybe like right at the like right in the elbow joint area.
00:44:54.36 Tony Fowler Yeah still maybe like right at the like right in the elbow joint area.
00:44:58.71 Taylor Kruse um But now we're kind of thinking about those flexor muscles of the elbow up into the bicep itself and
00:45:00.12 Tony Fowler but now we're kind of thinking about those flexer muscles of the elbow into the bicep itself. And gosh this actually can be quite a useful one for anterior shoulder issues like this basically biceps tendonitis right?
00:45:07.52 Taylor Kruse Gosh this is actually can be ah quite a useful one for anterior shoulder issues like basically biceps tendonitis right? um
00:45:18.41 Tony Fowler A lot of people struggle with that.
00:45:19.29 Taylor Kruse A lot of people struggle with that. up you know more Now we're up more by the shoulder.
00:45:20.93 Tony Fowler You know more now we're up more by the shoulder but look for muscular cutaneous nerve glide or
00:45:22.81 Taylor Kruse But look for musculocutaneous nerve glide um or tensioner or slack.
00:45:28.66 Tony Fowler or tensioner or slack and know there's lots things you can do with the nerd but that is a really
00:45:30.11 Taylor Kruse you know There's lots of things we can do with the nerve. But that is a ah really um powerful one for for elbow or shoulder issues and involving the flexor muscles.
00:45:35.10 Tony Fowler powerful one for our elbow or shoulder issues involved in the flexer muscle And just very briefly right um to to to explain a little bit of why you know we talk about threat all the time.
00:45:47.14 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm.
00:45:49.71 Tony Fowler And let's say your brain is perceiving threat around this tendon at a certain in a certain area right?
00:45:50.10 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:45:57.08 Tony Fowler And that's why there's you perceive maybe some pain there. And so what these slacking and then tensioning drills can do is expose that joint to some mobility or that to that tendon or that nerve to some mobility and then the brain can say oh this isn't threatening after all.
00:46:18.71 Taylor Kruse Yeah it's like a form of mapping.
00:46:19.00 Tony Fowler And then There you There you Yeah form mapping blurry sensitizing
00:46:21.50 Taylor Kruse Yeah yeah it's like a form of mapping and in clarifying blurry maps creating you know sensitizing the nerve to or or really this is the thing.
00:46:27.48 Tony Fowler to...
00:46:33.00 Taylor Kruse So depending on what we do with the nerve we might be sensitizing it in terms of stimulating it or even inhibiting
00:46:40.62 Tony Fowler inhibiting some of the threat or nociception that can be happening.
00:46:41.85 Taylor Kruse some of the threat or nociception that can be happening. So when when you look at the nerve itself when we're talking about peripheral nerves it's it's interesting because all nerves have nerve supply which is interesting to think about.
00:46:48.89 Tony Fowler So when you look at the nerve itself we're talking about peripheral nerves it's interesting because all nerves have nerve supply which is interesting to think about.
00:46:59.45 Taylor Kruse And part of the innervation of the nerve itself like the trunk of the nerve
00:47:00.50 Tony Fowler part of the innervation
00:47:06.90 Taylor Kruse is is another smaller nerve called the nervi novorum which is unique in the fact that it is an unmyelinated or it's made up of unmyelinated free nerve endings which means that it
00:47:18.33 Tony Fowler made up of unmyelinated free nerve endings which means that it basically has ah there's a lot of C fibers which is a type of nerve ending.
00:47:24.58 Taylor Kruse basically has ah there's a lot of C fibers which is a um a type of nerve ending. This is that type of unmyelinated free nerve ending.
00:47:30.95 Tony Fowler This is that type of unmyelinated free nerve ending.
00:47:34.84 Taylor Kruse C fibers are interesting because they they can be they can send information about mechanoreception so about movement but they can also send information to the brain about nociception which is threat or you know danger signals not pain
00:47:35.13 Tony Fowler C fibers are interesting because they they can be they can send information about mechanoreception so about movement but they can also send information to the brain about nociception which is threat or danger signals.
00:47:51.24 Tony Fowler Not pain because there's no nerves for pain.
00:47:52.66 Taylor Kruse because there's no there's no nerves for pain. right This goes back to that pain modern or modern pain neuroscience.
00:47:56.10 Tony Fowler This goes back to that pain modern or modern pain neuroscience right?
00:48:01.01 Taylor Kruse There's no nerves for pain but we do have nociception which signal danger essentially.
00:48:02.61 Tony Fowler nerves for paining but we do have no suception which signal danger essentially.
00:48:07.19 Taylor Kruse And so a peripheral nerve has this nervi nevorum innervation and that means that these C fibers can also produce nociception.
00:48:07.54 Tony Fowler And so a peripheral nerve has this nerve inervorum innervation. And that means that these C fibers and also produce nociception.
00:48:21.43 Taylor Kruse And this might make a case for why we can develop an issue like a let's call it like a um what is it called there when you're typing at the computer um the one you were describing thank you carpal tunnel.
00:48:21.72 Tony Fowler And this might make a case for why we can develop an issue like a let's call it like a what is it called there when you type in into the computer? Carpal tunnel.
00:48:32.06 Tony Fowler i thank you purpleble tunnel
00:48:33.49 Taylor Kruse It may make a case for why a peripheral nerve can feel like it is becoming agitated right?
00:48:34.07 Tony Fowler it may make a case for why peripheral nerve can feel like it is becoming agitated right because now there's a lot of ongoing nociception that's coming from that area and sometimes we have to turn down that nociception in which case we might use like the slacking procedure that you were talking about other times we might have to sensitize it more and so putting tension on the nerve
00:48:41.45 Taylor Kruse Because now there's a lot of ongoing nociception that's coming from that area and sometimes we have to turn down that nociception. in which case we might use like the slacking procedure that you were talking about.
00:48:53.30 Taylor Kruse Other times we might have to sensitize it more. And so putting tension on the nerve might be useful right?
00:48:58.81 Tony Fowler might be useful
00:49:00.45 Taylor Kruse So it's you kind of got to explore that and see is one working better than another?
00:49:00.54 Tony Fowler So it's kind of got to explore that and see yeah is one working better than another?
00:49:05.85 Taylor Kruse Perhaps both of them combined in the same exercises is effective where you go slacking into tensioning slacking into tensioning.
00:49:06.14 Tony Fowler Perhaps both of them combined in the same exercises is effective where you go slacking and attention and slacking and attention.
00:49:13.30 Taylor Kruse there's a lot we can do there. But yeah think about it at it in a very basic way.
00:49:15.54 Tony Fowler But yeah think about it and it in a very basic way.
00:49:19.22 Taylor Kruse We are improving map clarity when we start to bring nerves through their fullest range of motion.
00:49:19.47 Tony Fowler We are improving map clarity when we start to bring nerves through their fullest range of motion and we are improving their ability to be able to do what they do and
00:49:25.63 Taylor Kruse And we are improving their ability to be able to do what they do and and transmit information back to the spinal cord and the brain.
00:49:31.40 Tony Fowler transmit information back to the spin cord and the brain Yeah. So anecdotally when I was exploring this for myself I went straight to tensioning and it kind of made it worse.
00:49:45.69 Tony Fowler Felt like it was like ooh I didn't like that.
00:49:45.71 Taylor Kruse OK. Yep.
00:49:48.25 Tony Fowler So then I did the the slacking technique and I noticed now if I do the slacking first then I can do the tensioning and and.
00:49:48.34 Taylor Kruse Yep.
00:49:55.16 Taylor Kruse Oh nice.
00:49:56.63 Tony Fowler it it it seems to like it's like opens the door for that you know?
00:50:01.59 Taylor Kruse Yeah that's right.
00:50:02.28 Tony Fowler So it's like first I got to give it some some love and then I can give it some some stretch.
00:50:02.63 Taylor Kruse that
00:50:05.30 Taylor Kruse Yep. Yeah that slacking procedure is probably just taking taking tension off of it or at least it's perceived that way. And then yeah that that becomes an entry point. You can even do the slacking procedure for an extended amount of time and you can hold it more passively.
00:50:20.15 Tony Fowler Interesting.
00:50:20.15 Taylor Kruse Like if you rest your arm in the position by propping it up with your other arm and then just do some breathing and relaxing in the position sometimes more time in the slack the position can then equal a greater effect.
00:50:22.94 Tony Fowler it up with your other arm and then just do some breathing and relaxing in the position sometimes more time in the slack position can then equal a greater effect.
00:50:34.30 Taylor Kruse Right so yeah this is all the this is all the cool stuff we go over in our foundations course for learning how to use neuromechanics.
00:50:34.33 Tony Fowler Very cool. So yeah this is all the cool stuff we go over in our foundations course for learning how to use neuromechanics.
00:50:42.02 Taylor Kruse And each nerve you have you can tension you can slide or you can you can slack.
00:50:42.38 Tony Fowler And each nerve you can tension you can slide or you can slack with different things there.
00:50:47.22 Taylor Kruse There's different things there. And there's so many little nuances to that work but it's ah it's a wonderful tool.
00:50:48.57 Tony Fowler And there's so many little nuances but it's a wonderful tool.
00:50:51.83 Taylor Kruse Before we move on in categories here let me just mention this because I did say that Achilles tendon issues are something people are asking me about a lot.
00:50:52.18 Tony Fowler Yeah. Before we move on in categories here let me just mention this because I did say that Achilles tendon issues are something people are asking about a lot.
00:51:01.34 Taylor Kruse And since we're talking about neuromechanics you want to write this down if you're hunting for a drill that might be helpful.
00:51:01.71 Tony Fowler and since we're talking about neuromechanics you want to write this down if you're hunting for a drill that might be helpful.
00:51:07.14 Taylor Kruse It is called a sural nerve glide.
00:51:07.51 Tony Fowler It is called a Searle nerve blood.
00:51:10.88 Taylor Kruse Sural nerve glide.
00:51:11.22 Tony Fowler Searle nerve blood.
00:51:12.36 Taylor Kruse And it has it's S-U-R-A-L I think.
00:51:12.92 Tony Fowler And how would you spell Searle if you're writing this? S-U-R-A-L I think. OK.
00:51:18.46 Taylor Kruse Yeah. um it It can be really helpful in Achilles tendon issues.
00:51:20.50 Tony Fowler it it can be really helpful in Achilles tendon issues.
00:51:24.09 Taylor Kruse Again it might not solve it right?
00:51:24.40 Tony Fowler Again it might not solve it right?
00:51:25.81 Taylor Kruse Because there might be more levels we need to work through but sometimes it does.
00:51:26.12 Tony Fowler Because there might be more levels we need to work through but sometimes it does. Mm-hmm.
00:51:31.22 Taylor Kruse And so you want to look for that one.
00:51:31.61 Tony Fowler And so you want to look for that one.
00:51:33.14 Taylor Kruse You can find it on my YouTube channel.
00:51:33.49 Tony Fowler You can find it on my YouTube channel.
00:51:34.58 Taylor Kruse And same everything we just talked about applies.
00:51:36.06 Tony Fowler same Everything we just talked about applies.
00:51:38.44 Taylor Kruse you know you can You can tension it slack it slide it.
00:51:38.72 Tony Fowler You can tension it slack it slide it.
00:51:41.27 Taylor Kruse You might explore it and see which one's best for you.
00:51:41.59 Tony Fowler You might explore it and see which one's best for you.
00:51:43.98 Taylor Kruse I think I have a long form tutorial on that one as well.
00:51:44.40 Tony Fowler think have a long-form tutorial on that one as well. Yeah very nice. So one of the things my uncle he plays guitar and he complains about tennis elbow.
00:51:57.43 Tony Fowler And so one of the things he does is he puts like some kind of band and I forget exactly where it is but kind of at the top of his forearm it feels like like right below the the elbow.
00:51:57.73 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm.
00:52:04.34 Taylor Kruse Yeah yeah I've seen those. Yep.
00:52:08.92 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm.
00:52:09.50 Tony Fowler And he says that helps some he can it can help him get through you know a practice session or whatever.
00:52:15.16 Taylor Kruse Yep.
00:52:15.58 Tony Fowler What do you think's going on there?
00:52:17.43 Taylor Kruse So it it it could be mapping. Like it could just be clarifying a map right?
00:52:20.10 Tony Fowler Yeah.
00:52:21.71 Taylor Kruse Proprioceptively it's almost like putting kinesio tape on the body right? so So perhaps that is what's happening for some people. I mean it really is kind of amazing when you put those types of braces on.
00:52:32.53 Taylor Kruse Like it can go a long way.
00:52:34.33 Tony Fowler yeah
00:52:34.84 Taylor Kruse and And knowing how well kinesio tape works in certain instances i get why.
00:52:37.56 Tony Fowler were certain is i get why
00:52:42.20 Taylor Kruse i mean it could it could provide a sense of stability for the joint um just by creating that pressure.
00:52:42.58 Tony Fowler i mean it could it could provide a sense of stability for the joint just by creating that pressure That compression yeah.
00:52:49.28 Taylor Kruse There's there's also an yeah there's also another right because it is a receptor tool.
00:52:50.75 Tony Fowler Yeah there's also another right because it is a receptor tool right?
00:52:53.66 Taylor Kruse right Because when you put something like that on the skin and it's creating skin traction and pressure or whatever the case might be that's a receptor stimulus.
00:52:53.94 Tony Fowler Because when you put something like that on the skin and it's creating skin traction and pressure or whatever the case might be that's a receptor stimulus.
00:53:02.02 Taylor Kruse And you know that kind of tactile stimulation can be useful in decreasing pain.
00:53:02.30 Tony Fowler And you know that kind of tactile stimulation can be useful in decreasing pain.
00:53:08.22 Taylor Kruse um The other thing is when you when you touch the body
00:53:08.98 Tony Fowler The other thing is when you when you touch the body
00:53:14.42 Taylor Kruse let's say with just like ah your index finger right?
00:53:14.71 Tony Fowler let's say with just like ah your index finger right?
00:53:17.62 Taylor Kruse Let's say someone touches your your arm where you're feeling the discomfort.
00:53:18.17 Tony Fowler Someone touches your your arm where you're feeling the discomfort.
00:53:22.78 Taylor Kruse there There is a concept called lateral inhibition which kind of works like this.
00:53:23.26 Tony Fowler There is a concept called lateral inhibition which kind of works like this.
00:53:28.19 Taylor Kruse Like if if you touch the skin basically 360 degrees around that area and I don't know what the exact radius would be but it would be pretty localized to where you touch the skin.
00:53:28.47 Tony Fowler Like if if you touch the skin basically 360 degrees around that area and I don't know what the exact radius would be but it would be pretty localized to where you touch the skin.
00:53:42.01 Taylor Kruse this idea of lateral inhibition means that anytime you you touch the body there is generally some level of pain inhibition that occurs locally to where the touch is.
00:53:42.33 Tony Fowler This idea of lateral inhibition means that anytime you you touch the body there is generally some level of pain inhibition that occurs locally to where the touch is.
00:53:55.19 Taylor Kruse And that might also describe why something like putting on one of those little app proprioceptive you know
00:53:55.61 Tony Fowler And that might also describe why something like putting on one of those little proprioceptive you know it's like a ring.
00:54:03.38 Taylor Kruse Kind of it's like a ring. It goes around the elbow like a little strap.
00:54:04.58 Tony Fowler It goes around. Yeah. although stra could could be
00:54:06.65 Taylor Kruse Could could be um possibly you know that idea could be a play.
00:54:09.46 Tony Fowler possibly idea could be a question So you say like well what what wires together fires together.
00:54:17.44 Taylor Kruse Mm-hmm.
00:54:17.59 Tony Fowler In this case it's like what inhibits nearby also inhibits.
00:54:23.06 Tony Fowler Yeah it's interesting.
00:54:23.42 Taylor Kruse Yeah yeah it's interesting.
00:54:23.84 Tony Fowler mean use that call pressure checking.
00:54:25.62 Taylor Kruse I mean we we we use that technique.
00:54:27.64 Tony Fowler And basically if you're looking for a starting point on somebody and do some form of
00:54:29.18 Taylor Kruse We call it pressure checking. and And basically if you're looking for a starting point on somebody and you're going to do some form of proprioceptive work or tactile work you could literally touch body parts and have them retest.
00:54:40.62 Tony Fowler proprioceptive work or tactile work you could literally touch body parts and have them retest let's say global range of motion or than trump rotation
00:54:46.94 Taylor Kruse let's say global range of motion forward bend trunk rotation shoulder abduction all those basics that we often use.
00:54:51.51 Tony Fowler shoulder abduction all those basics that we often use.
00:54:55.00 Taylor Kruse And you'll find that when you touch them in a body area and their range of motion improves a lot what you're actually getting is immediate feedback and clues that working proprioceptively with that body area would probably be a useful thing.
00:54:55.32 Tony Fowler And you'll find that when you touch them in a body area and their range of motion improves a lot what you're actually getting is immediate feedback and clues that working proprioceptively with that body area would probably be a useful thing.
00:55:11.61 Taylor Kruse And you can even you can even use this to your advantage and it goes much deeper than that because we can touch touch like touch the body and test different directions in terms of like pulling the skin but you can very easily figure out what would be a good idea or what would be a bad idea.
00:55:12.01 Tony Fowler And you can even use this to your advantage and it goes much deeper than that because we can touch touch like touch the body and test different directions in terms of like pulling the skin. But you can very easily figure out what would be a good idea or what would be a bad idea.
00:55:27.35 Taylor Kruse One time I used this technique on somebody that had a very very sensitive lower back issue.
00:55:27.70 Tony Fowler One time I used this technique on somebody that had a very very sensitive lower back issue.
00:55:33.24 Taylor Kruse They were getting a lot of flare ups.
00:55:33.60 Tony Fowler They were getting a lot of flare-ups and I was so glad that I used pressure checking before basically guessing what to do.
00:55:35.29 Taylor Kruse And I was so glad that I used pressure checking before basically guessing what to do because I found that when I tractioned the skin on their lower back in a very specific specific direction
00:55:42.58 Tony Fowler because i found that when i tractioned the skin on their lower back in a very specific specific direction
00:55:49.47 Taylor Kruse Basically their nervous system hated it in their range of motion reduced drastically with all movements.
00:55:49.74 Tony Fowler Basically their nervous system hated it in their range of motion reduced drastically with all movements. oh wow So it it it gave me feedback.
00:55:55.35 Taylor Kruse And so it it it gave me feedback. It was like oh don't let's not move their...
00:55:57.57 Tony Fowler was like oh let's not move there you know their pelvis today and their lumbar spine.
00:56:01.30 Taylor Kruse you know their pelvis today and their lumbar spine. Let's try to find a an entry point further away from this until that we can kind of calm this threat down.
00:56:04.75 Tony Fowler Let's try to find a an entry point further away from this until that we can kind of calm this right down. right So it's just it's cool how just like one of your body can give you clues like that.
00:56:11.67 Taylor Kruse Right? So it's just it's cool how just like one you know touch to the body can give you clues like that. But yeah going back to that strap that you were talking about perhaps the lateral inhibition comes in there.
00:56:17.27 Tony Fowler but yeah going back to that strap that you were talking about perhaps col lateral inhibition comes in there Very cool. Very cool.
00:56:25.34 Taylor Kruse Yeah and those those I'm always telling people hey if something like that helps use it right?
00:56:25.91 Tony Fowler this always telling people hey something like that helps use it
00:56:30.94 Taylor Kruse and Use it.
00:56:31.10 Tony Fowler use it's a
00:56:31.58 Taylor Kruse it's ah It's a good passive stimulus that that can be that can be good.
00:56:33.73 Tony Fowler passive stimulus that that can be particular canly good
00:56:38.52 Taylor Kruse One thing that is worth noting for all of these tendon issues that for me is kind of obvious but I should say it is just our our joint mobility stu drills.
00:56:38.84 Tony Fowler One thing that is worth noting for all of these tendon issues that for me is kind of obvious but I should say it is just our our joint mobility drills.
00:56:49.46 Taylor Kruse I mean they can go a long way with ah with tendon issues too.
00:56:49.78 Tony Fowler I mean they can go a long way with uh with tendon issues too.
00:56:52.58 Taylor Kruse Now sometimes you have to tweak the way that you're approaching joint mobility because if you're generating too much tension that can exacerbate issues.
00:56:52.86 Tony Fowler Now sometimes you have to tweak the way that you're approaching joint mobility because if you're generating too much tension that can exacerbate issues but if you can again kind of use those elements of efficiency into it make sure you're not generating too much tension uh especially in other parts of the body and you can move a joint through its fullest range of motion that can be quite useful.
00:57:01.24 Taylor Kruse But if you can again kind of bring those elements of efficiency into it make sure you're not generating too much tension especially in other parts of the body and you can move a joint through its fullest range of motion that can be quite useful.
00:57:14.30 Taylor Kruse And for tendons you might even explore a tool called a floss band.
00:57:14.58 Tony Fowler And for tendons you might even explore a tool called a floss band.
00:57:21.21 Taylor Kruse and We've probably mentioned this before in the podcast but basically a floss band is a piece of latex that is let's say two two and a half inches wide but extremely thin.
00:57:21.58 Tony Fowler We've probably mentioned this before in the podcast but basically a floss band is a piece of latex that is let's say two two and a half inches wide but extremely thin.
00:57:33.69 Taylor Kruse And they they're about six feet long somewhere between five and six feet long and you can wrap them around joints and cover the joint and create pressure.
00:57:33.98 Tony Fowler and they they're about six feet long somewhere between five and six feet long and you can wrap them around joints and cover the joint and you can create pressure
00:57:42.65 Taylor Kruse And oftentimes that pressure is a very useful stimulus to combine with our joint mobilizations.
00:57:42.97 Tony Fowler and oftentimes that pressure is a very stimulus combine with our joint mobilization
00:57:51.26 Taylor Kruse So that'd be something to to consider for our listeners that are looking for tools they can apply.
00:57:51.61 Tony Fowler that be something to to consider for our listeners that are looking for tools they can apply. And and kind of like the the brace you were just talking about like you're you're basically stacking this pressure this touch this dermal stimulus right with the joint mobilization.
00:58:01.34 Taylor Kruse Yeah exactly. You got it.
00:58:09.24 Taylor Kruse Yeah and the the floss band is unique because we're able to basically go we can work with deeper deeper layers of tissue basically.
00:58:16.38 Tony Fowler can work with deeper lighter conditions. Right.
00:58:20.38 Taylor Kruse Whether that's happening or not it it may be perceived that way because of the pressure.
00:58:20.97 Tony Fowler And if you're moving... because of the pressure and then when you start to move you're getting a lot of tractioning and and moving of underlying tissues and
00:58:25.78 Taylor Kruse And then when you start to move you're getting a lot of tractioning and in moving of underlying tissues. And that compression can give the joint kind of a sense of stability and might be useful for um you know just mapping like we talked about.
00:58:30.97 Tony Fowler compression can give them joint kind of a sense of stability and might be useful for just mapping that we talked about right and and if you're moving um in a way like if you're supporting the load in the same way that you would when you were experiencing this pain um that makes it more specific to how your nervous system is set up when you're actually moving right?
00:58:58.38 Tony Fowler So we're not just doing this in a passive way.
00:58:58.71 Taylor Kruse Right.
00:59:01.83 Tony Fowler We're also doing it while we're being active. Active usually always wins.
00:59:03.90 Taylor Kruse It's a good point. Active usually always wins. There there are times when passive is the entry point.
00:59:06.96 Tony Fowler There times when is the entry point.
00:59:10.04 Taylor Kruse but But more often than not active is always going to win because your brain is learning something versus just applying a passive stimulus.
00:59:11.03 Tony Fowler more often than not always is learning something versus just applying a passive stimulus and we typically see those results not last as long make sense but yeah it's ah it's a good point Here's one I want to throw in.
00:59:16.99 Taylor Kruse And we typically see those results not last as long which makes sense right? But yeah that's a good point. here' Here's one I want to throw in that's kind of more in my history findings list that's super valuable for people that are experiencing tendon issues on both sides of the body.
00:59:26.54 Tony Fowler It's kind of more in my history findings list that's super valuable for people that are experiencing tending issues on both sides of the body. So that means hey i've got tennis elbows on both elbows.
00:59:33.75 Taylor Kruse So that means hey I've got tennis elbow. It's on both elbows. You know I've got patella issues on both knees Achilles issues you know both ah both ankles right?
00:59:38.14 Tony Fowler got tell issues on both needs killlles's issues you know both both ankles right?
00:59:46.11 Taylor Kruse Those bilateral findings are generally telling us that the problem is more central.
00:59:46.71 Tony Fowler Those bilateral findings are generally telling us that the problem is more central.
00:59:53.98 Taylor Kruse So think spinal cord.
00:59:54.30 Tony Fowler So think spinal cord.
00:59:56.47 Taylor Kruse So this is a really common finding.
00:59:56.76 Tony Fowler So this is a really common finding.
00:59:58.81 Taylor Kruse Now it's not perfect but most of the time you will find that the problem or at least a large part of the problem is somewhere in the middle of the body.
00:59:59.16 Tony Fowler Now it's not perfect but most of the time you will find that the problem or least a large part of the problem is somewhere in the middle of the body.
01:00:06.46 Taylor Kruse That could be the spinal cord.
01:00:07.00 Tony Fowler That could be the spinal cord it could be nerve roots
01:00:08.10 Taylor Kruse It could be nerve roots. It could be even a person's vision which is where things get weird.
01:00:10.14 Tony Fowler it could be even a person's vision which is where things get like hey you have tennis elbow because it's your eye
01:00:14.28 Taylor Kruse Like hey you have tennis elbow because it's your eyes. Like yeah. Yeah. But in our world yeah you could have bilateral tennis elbow developing because of vision problems.
01:00:20.50 Tony Fowler but in our world Yeah. Yeah. i time this sell though developing because of vision problems
01:00:27.90 Taylor Kruse um But that's important to know from from a history perspective.
01:00:28.98 Tony Fowler but that's important to know from from a history perspective and
01:00:31.73 Taylor Kruse And you know when I hear that some of the things that I immediately think about are okay does this person have any spinal cord mobility issues?
01:00:33.27 Tony Fowler you know when i hear that some of the things that i immediately think about are okay does this person have any spinal cord mobility issue
01:00:41.56 Taylor Kruse And oftentimes they do.
01:00:42.36 Tony Fowler oftentimes they do.
01:00:43.54 Taylor Kruse So one of the things I see all the time is that our folks who are complaining of bilateral tennis elbow or or golf golfer's elbow have thoracic spine mobility problems.
01:00:43.66 Tony Fowler But one of the things I see all the time is that our folks who are complaining a bilateral tennis elbow or golfers elbow have thoracic spine mobility problems.
01:00:56.24 Taylor Kruse It's really common.
01:00:56.63 Tony Fowler Really common or even cervical spine mobility problems.
01:00:56.96 Taylor Kruse Or even cervical spine. mobility problems. So maybe we now have to go through some of our joint mobilizations to take care of spinal cord mobility and that can often be really really useful.
01:01:00.09 Tony Fowler So maybe we now have to go through some of our joint mobilizations to take care spinal cord mobility that can often be really really useful
01:01:08.92 Taylor Kruse There could be like nerve root issues there at the spinal cord.
01:01:09.59 Tony Fowler be like nerve group issues there at the spinal cord.
01:01:13.97 Taylor Kruse And
01:01:14.18 Tony Fowler Um and even what we call DTRs and deep tendon reflex issues which is actually like the reflex of the tendon itself.
01:01:14.46 Taylor Kruse and even what we call DTRs deep tendon reflex issues which is actually like the reflex of the tendon itself.
01:01:27.00 Taylor Kruse So you know how when you were a kid and you went to the doctors your knee was on the table your legs on the table and the doctor takes the tendon hammer and goes boink right off your you know tendon and your leg jumps off the table.
01:01:27.32 Tony Fowler So you know how when you were a kid and you went to the doctors your knee was on the table your legs on the table the doctor takes the tendon hammer and goes point right off your you know tendon and you're That was always so fun.
01:01:41.13 Tony Fowler i don't know why.
01:01:41.50 Taylor Kruse Yeah. Yeah. Um That is what I'm talking about with deep tendon reflex.
01:01:46.65 Tony Fowler is what I'm talking about with the deep bending reflux. And that is important.
01:01:49.24 Taylor Kruse And that is important. That's kind of like the it's like the muscle stretch reflex basically.
01:01:54.33 Tony Fowler That's kind of like it's like a muscle stretch reflux basically.
01:01:59.58 Taylor Kruse And sometimes if people have had issues over time with peripheral nerves or the spinal cord maybe they've even had a spinal cord injury at some point
01:01:59.90 Tony Fowler And sometimes if people have had issues over time with peripheral nerves or the spinal cord maybe they've even had a spinal cord injury at some point.
01:02:12.15 Taylor Kruse a bulging disc something along those lines you can actually lose deep tendon reflexes in which case those tendons are not not responding correctly anymore.
01:02:12.41 Tony Fowler a building disc something along those lines you can actually lose deep tendon reflexes in which case those tendons are not responding correctly anymore so you might tap them with the hammer and
01:02:22.24 Taylor Kruse So you might tap them with the hammer. And yes these tendons all the tendons that we're talking about have these reflexes.
01:02:25.11 Tony Fowler yes these tendons all the tendons that we're talking about have the reflexes it's not just at the meat
01:02:28.91 Taylor Kruse It's not just at the knee. So you can you can test tendons at the elbow at the forearm
01:02:30.84 Tony Fowler so you can you can test tendons at the elbow at the for
01:02:34.33 Taylor Kruse We can do the same for the hamstrings and the Achilles.
01:02:35.42 Tony Fowler for the hamstrings and the achilles
01:02:37.05 Taylor Kruse And when you tap the tendon with the hammer you should get a response from that a reflexive response where there's like a twitch.
01:02:37.69 Tony Fowler and when you tap the ten of the hammer you should get ah response from that a reflexive response where there's like a twitch.
01:02:44.50 Taylor Kruse Okay and you can even evaluate it deeper.
01:02:44.92 Tony Fowler and we can even evaluate it deeper and by looking at the movement that happens after the twitch whether or not it's Mm-hmm.
01:02:46.30 Taylor Kruse And by looking at the movement that happens after the twitch whether or not it's too much or too little we can kind of grade those responses because you can tap a tendon. And let's say you see your we see that knee jerk happen and then the leg sort of keeps swinging
01:02:57.21 Tony Fowler see that knee jerk happens and then the leg sort of keeps swinging
01:03:02.74 Taylor Kruse as it slows down and maybe it swings five times before it actually comes to a stop you might look at that as actually a um a suboptimal response for the tendon reflex where there's too much movement and not enough of the movement was inhibited on time.
01:03:03.10 Tony Fowler as it slows down and maybe it swings five times before it actually comes to a stop might look at that as actually a sub optimal response to the ten recplex where there's too much movement and not enough of the movement was inhibited on
01:03:21.62 Taylor Kruse And we might even consider that more of a cerebellar issue because the cerebellum is it's one of its primary jobs is to stop ah unwanted movements and inhibit them.
01:03:22.01 Tony Fowler And we might even consider that more of cerebellar issue. Because cerebellum it it's one of its primary jobs is to stop unwanted movements.
01:03:31.61 Taylor Kruse Or you can maybe tap tendon and nothing happens.
01:03:32.22 Tony Fowler Or you can maybe tap the tendon and nothing happens.
01:03:34.13 Taylor Kruse It's non-responsive.
01:03:34.42 Tony Fowler It's non-responsive.
01:03:34.97 Taylor Kruse And I see this way more than you would think.
01:03:35.34 Tony Fowler And I see this way more than you would think.
01:03:38.78 Taylor Kruse And a lot of times yeah it's a spinal cord history.
01:03:39.13 Tony Fowler And a lot of times yeah it's spinal cord history.
01:03:42.10 Taylor Kruse most Most of the time I would say.
01:03:42.71 Tony Fowler Most of the time I would say.
01:03:46.08 Taylor Kruse Anyways testing those is actually not that difficult especially if you have a tendon hammer but I actually teach my clients how to do it on themselves.
01:03:46.35 Tony Fowler Anyways testing those is actually not that difficult especially if you have a tendon hammer but I actually teach my clients how to do it um themselves.
01:03:55.10 Taylor Kruse And I'll say hey go grab a butter knife from your kitchen.
01:03:55.39 Tony Fowler And I'll say hey go grab a butter knife from your kitchen.
01:03:58.34 Taylor Kruse We'll turn the butter knife around.
01:03:58.71 Tony Fowler turn the butter knife around it's at just enough weight and You can actually just Google up deep tendon reflexes on YouTube and you'll see you know you'll see like physicians and stuff demonstrating this and teaching like medical you know students.
01:03:59.78 Taylor Kruse It's got just enough weight and you can actually just Google up deep tendon reflexes on YouTube and you'll see you know you'll see like physicians and stuff demonstrating this and teaching like medical you know students.
01:04:11.16 Taylor Kruse And it's not a hard thing to do necessarily once you figure out how to relax your limb enough but when someone else can do it for you it's better.
01:04:11.45 Tony Fowler And it's not a hard thing. to do necessarily once you figure out how to relax you' limit up but when someone else can do it for you it's better
01:04:18.87 Taylor Kruse and it's easier.
01:04:19.19 Tony Fowler and it's easier
01:04:20.22 Taylor Kruse But the point I'm trying to make is sometimes people with bilateral tendon issues actually have deep tendon reflexes that aren't working too.
01:04:20.50 Tony Fowler the point i'm trying to make is
01:04:26.82 Tony Fowler deep tendon reflexes that aren't working too. And that can be problematic.
01:04:29.05 Taylor Kruse And that can be problematic. And you can restore those reflexes.
01:04:30.94 Tony Fowler And you can restore those reflexes.
01:04:32.58 Taylor Kruse I've done it many times now with ah with clients.
01:04:32.86 Tony Fowler I've done it many times now with clients.
01:04:35.66 Taylor Kruse And literally just by tapping the tendon repetitively as part of a stack for other exercises you can get really far doing that.
01:04:36.28 Tony Fowler And literally just by tapping the tendon repetitively as part of a stack or other exercises you can get really far doing that.
01:04:44.31 Taylor Kruse So in other words let's say you have a patellar tendonitis
01:04:44.66 Tony Fowler So in other words let's say you have a patellar tendonitis.
01:04:48.15 Taylor Kruse go sit down in a chair relax your leg take a butter knife and gently start tapping the tendon.
01:04:48.44 Tony Fowler Go sit down in a chair relax your leg take a butter knife and gently start tapping attendance
01:04:56.15 Taylor Kruse Even if you don't get a response because like I said it can be hard to relax your leg enough when you're doing this on yourself.
01:04:56.74 Tony Fowler Right.
01:05:02.65 Taylor Kruse Even if you don't get a response you can immediately retest afterwards and see if it was useful after you tapped the tendon let's say 20 times.
01:05:02.94 Tony Fowler even if you don't get a response you can immediately retest afterwards and see if it was useful after you tap the ten let's say twenty times
01:05:10.68 Taylor Kruse Sometimes that can be a very useful training stimulus.
01:05:10.97 Tony Fowler sometimes that can be a very useful training stimulus
01:05:14.01 Taylor Kruse And if nothing happens
01:05:14.33 Tony Fowler and if nothing happens
01:05:17.27 Taylor Kruse You might in fact be discovering that you don't have the reflex which you you know would be problematic right?
01:05:17.56 Tony Fowler you might in fact be discovering that you don't have the reflex which you know would be problema right um
01:05:25.14 Taylor Kruse um And if you do have the reflex great that's good news.
01:05:26.94 Tony Fowler And if you do have the reflex great. That's good news.
01:05:29.25 Taylor Kruse You can still tap the tendon and retest it and see if it's a useful training stimulus.
01:05:29.54 Tony Fowler You can still tap the tendon and retest it and see if it's a useful training.
01:05:34.14 Taylor Kruse But a lot of times we have to when we see this we have to find ways to bring the reflex back.
01:05:34.50 Tony Fowler But lot of times we have to when we see this we have to find ways to bring the reflex back and our nerve glides are actually a way that we have been successful with that too as well as just tapping the tendon.
01:05:39.37 Taylor Kruse And our nerve glides are actually a way that we have been successful with that too as well as just tapping the tendon. And that can go a long way for tendon problems because here's the thing when those reflexes aren't working it's as if your shocks are not working.
01:05:46.55 Tony Fowler And that can go a long way for tendon problems because here's the thing when those reflexes aren't working it's as if your shocks are not what
01:05:53.75 Taylor Kruse Because that that reflex that happens helps us with fast movement.
01:05:54.07 Tony Fowler that that reflex that happens helps us with fast movement.
01:05:57.88 Taylor Kruse It helps us like decelerate or buffer movement that's fast.
01:05:58.29 Tony Fowler It helps us like decelerate or buffer movement that's fast.
01:06:02.14 Taylor Kruse Think like plyometric type activity.
01:06:02.42 Tony Fowler Think like plyometric type activity.
01:06:05.11 Taylor Kruse So um yeah restoring that is quite important.
01:06:05.50 Tony Fowler So yeah restoring that is quite important i've had to do that
01:06:08.94 Taylor Kruse I've had to do that a number of times with people.
01:06:10.68 Tony Fowler number of times
01:06:11.50 Taylor Kruse And it's been quite quite important for them to get back into like more athletic movement without pain.
01:06:12.05 Tony Fowler it's been quite quite important for them to get back into like more athletic movement of without Yeah. So often you know the pain is like a ah clue but it's not the whole it's not the whole mystery. And so you're doing these history a set you're doing these you're taking these histories and you're doing these assessments and you're trying to figure out okay is it bilateral? Is it is it floating? Is it
01:06:38.33 Tony Fowler very specific to that one joint or and and you're using those clues and applied neurology right to find these solutions.
01:06:38.84 Taylor Kruse Right.
01:06:47.35 Tony Fowler And so for one person it might be how they're breathing. And for someone else it might be their reflex ah response needs to be trained.
01:06:54.40 Taylor Kruse Right.
01:06:54.81 Tony Fowler And for someone else it's you know um something else. Right. So yeah really really fascinating.
01:07:00.25 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
01:07:04.34 Taylor Kruse Let me pause for a second Tony. I gotta plug my computer in.
01:07:06.87 Tony Fowler Yeah no problem.
01:07:07.67 Taylor Kruse I got that thing right behind me and I forgot it wasn't plugged in.
01:07:32.47 Taylor Kruse So something worth saying.
01:07:33.72 Tony Fowler something worth saying is just thinking about general conditioning right because we said how some of these overuse injuries can actually be from disuse it's just that you got a name put on your pain based on the body part and what hurts when you touch it but we can still have those issues from disuse and and sometimes we are active right so maybe we don't have the right type of conditioning and our our body is becoming deficient in certain
01:07:35.86 Taylor Kruse is just thinking about general conditioning right? Because we said how some of these overuse injuries can actually be from disuse. It's just that you got a name put on your pain based on the body part and what hurts when you touch it.
01:07:51.83 Taylor Kruse but we can still have those issues from disuse. and And sometimes we are active right? But maybe we don't have the right type of conditioning. And our our body is becoming deficient in certain types of stimulus.
01:08:02.90 Tony Fowler types of stimulus and and that happens especially when you're in pain start you stop doing bioometric type
01:08:03.65 Taylor Kruse And and that happens especially when you're in pain. You start you stop doing plyometric type activity.
01:08:09.27 Tony Fowler right So you have to think about kind of the receptor-specific nature of a tendon itself as being involved in more plyometric-type things or more ballistic-type movement and being able to buffer and transmit energy through the body.
01:08:09.66 Taylor Kruse right So you have to think about kind of the receptor-specific nature of a tendon itself as being involved in more plyometric-type things or more ballistic-type movement and being able to buffer and transmit energy through the body.
01:08:26.42 Taylor Kruse And if you're not moving like that anymore which many of us don't accidentally
01:08:26.71 Tony Fowler And if you're not moving like that anymore which many of us don't accidentally that can be problematic long-term.
01:08:31.38 Taylor Kruse okay That can be problematic long long term because now your tendons are losing their elasticity right which is what they're supposed to be able to do and behave like.
01:08:36.84 Tony Fowler because now your tendons are losing their elasticity right? Which is what they're supposed to be able to So sometimes from a general specific standpoint we've got to kind of evaluate and go well you might be active.
01:08:45.53 Taylor Kruse So sometimes from a general specific standpoint we've got to kind of evaluate and go well you might be active. Okay that's good.
01:08:52.30 Tony Fowler Okay. That's good.
01:08:53.97 Taylor Kruse But you might be deficient in certain types of movement right?
01:08:54.23 Tony Fowler But you might be deficient in certain types of movement.
01:08:57.67 Taylor Kruse So that's just another you know it just we keeps building a case for why it's important to move athletically and have some sort of speed variability in your fitness regimen so that you're not always doing things slow.
01:08:57.72 Tony Fowler Right. So that's just another know just keeps building a case for why it's important to move athletically and have some sort of speed variability in your fitness regimen so that you're not always doing things slow.
01:09:12.44 Taylor Kruse right?
01:09:12.83 Tony Fowler Right?
01:09:12.92 Taylor Kruse We got we gotta to move athletically to some degree um you know and and for the general population it doesn't have to be like a complete um makeover of your programming.
01:09:13.21 Tony Fowler We've got we gotta to move athletically to some degree. you know and And for the general population it doesn't have to be like a complete um makeover of your programming.
01:09:29.94 Taylor Kruse But like hey when's the last time you jumped rope?
01:09:30.17 Tony Fowler But like hey when's the last time you jumped rope?
01:09:33.05 Taylor Kruse You know like stuff like that.
01:09:34.14 Tony Fowler Stuff like that.
01:09:35.68 Taylor Kruse When's the last time you actually did some buildup sprints?
01:09:35.94 Tony Fowler When's the last time you actually... Do the clap. Yeah. Yeah.
01:09:40.44 Taylor Kruse You know when's the last time you did something more plyometric where you've been doing pushups for 15 years but instead of doing you know three sets of 10 why don't we do them at different speeds?
01:09:41.17 Tony Fowler when's the last time you did something more biometric where you've been doing pushups for fifteen years but instead of doing you know three sets of ten why don't we do them at different speeds
01:09:54.39 Taylor Kruse Or how about a plyometric type pushup you know where you're actually like exploding right?
01:09:54.65 Tony Fowler or how about alimetric type push up where you're actually like exploding do the clap one yeah even if you only do one i do stuff like that a lot where i'm like all right
01:09:59.88 Taylor Kruse Even if you can only do one. Yeah even if you only do one. I do stuff like that a lot where I'm like all right instead of 10 I'm going to do 10 sets of one.
01:10:06.07 Tony Fowler ten maybe ten cents of wine
01:10:09.21 Taylor Kruse but I'm gonna move with the intent of being fast.
01:10:09.46 Tony Fowler but I'm going to move with the intent of being fast.
01:10:12.79 Taylor Kruse and And that's a totally different training stimulus.
01:10:13.08 Tony Fowler And that's a totally different training stimulus.
01:10:15.70 Taylor Kruse And you'll feel that for sure that it's different because the next day you're like whoa it's interesting.
01:10:15.72 Tony Fowler And you'll feel that for sure that it's different because the next day you're like whoa interesting.
01:10:22.07 Taylor Kruse I don't feel like I did the same volume that I normally do when I'm strength training and kind of grinding through movements but just that fast nature to the few reps that I did actually totally taxed me in a different way.
01:10:22.48 Tony Fowler I don't feel like I did the same volume that I normally do when I'm strength training and kind of grinding through movements but just that fast nature to a few reps. that i did actually totally taxed me
01:10:35.99 Tony Fowler You know one of the things that I've sort of come to think about in terms of programming is that the best program is the one. Well the best program is the one that you you will do. Right.
01:10:47.80 Taylor Kruse Right.
01:10:47.93 Tony Fowler But the the the most optimal next program is the one that has all the stuff that you never do.
01:10:55.38 Taylor Kruse Right.
01:10:55.67 Tony Fowler And so it's like if you're always sprinting and you're always doing that like maybe doing something at a slower pace more strength based would be a real tonic for you. Like it would really make your body feel good.
01:11:05.08 Taylor Kruse Right.
01:11:06.63 Tony Fowler And if you're always lifting really heavy and slow maybe doing plyometrics and more explosive work at a lighter weight would be really would feel really good for you. It's sort of like the antidote for whatever you're you've come to do.
01:11:20.82 Tony Fowler is the thing that you're you're avoiding. And so if that means you're not doing anything well then most programs are going to be something good for you right?
01:11:22.93 Taylor Kruse Yeah.
01:11:28.57 Taylor Kruse Right right.
01:11:29.22 Tony Fowler you can lose these kinds of things when you're moving.
01:11:30.55 Taylor Kruse it's It's amazing how you can lose... It's amazing how you can accidentally lose these kinds of things in your movement.
01:11:34.04 Tony Fowler I was just thinking about this time was over restaurant not long ago up going basement was looking for something
01:11:40.50 Taylor Kruse I was just thinking about this time I was over a friend's house not long ago and we ended up going into his... basement He was looking for something that he was going to let me borrow.
01:11:51.24 Taylor Kruse And he had a punching bag down there like a heavy bag.
01:11:52.07 Tony Fowler Yeah nice. No I didn't know that. Yeah.
01:11:54.26 Taylor Kruse And like when I see a heavy bag like I have to wind up and just hammer it with ah with a kick.
01:11:54.93 Tony Fowler see a heavy bag like i have to wind up
01:11:59.02 Taylor Kruse I love to kick right?
01:12:00.15 Tony Fowler yeah
01:12:00.42 Taylor Kruse And I grew up kicking when I was little.
01:12:00.76 Tony Fowler nice
01:12:02.62 Taylor Kruse Taekwondo. And then like I've done some kickboxing just for fun.
01:12:04.25 Tony Fowler i didn't know that
01:12:05.98 Taylor Kruse like Especially during COVID times our juji when our jujitsu schedule was altered they were kind of like... You know how weird it was during that time. Like they were basically like okay no jujitsu but we'll just shift to like self-defense and kickboxing.
01:12:15.64 Tony Fowler yeah They were basically like okay no jujitsu but we'll just shift to like self-defense and kickboxing.
01:12:20.82 Taylor Kruse So then I was doing some of that. Anyways the point is I love to kick and I grew up doing it all the time when I was in Taekwondo but i I don't get to do that anymore.
01:12:22.87 Tony Fowler I was doing some that. Anyways the point is I love to kick and grew up doing all the time when I was in Taekwondo but I don't get to do that anymore.
01:12:30.55 Taylor Kruse And I wound up and hammered the heavy bag with this kick and it was like bone rattling for me.
01:12:31.01 Tony Fowler And wound up and hammered the heavy bag with this kick it was like bone rattling. And I was like whoa that's it feels good.
01:12:36.09 Taylor Kruse And I was like whoa that's it feels good.
01:12:38.92 Tony Fowler It also kind of felt bad.
01:12:39.03 Taylor Kruse It also kind of felt bad because I wasn't that used to it right?
01:12:41.37 Tony Fowler So you got a condition right? Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:43.74 Taylor Kruse And I'm like oh yeah like max speed.
01:12:46.15 Tony Fowler speed.
01:12:47.29 Taylor Kruse you know It's so different that ballistic nature of throwing that kind of you know momentum into a movement and then having an impact.
01:12:49.97 Tony Fowler nature of throwing that kind of you know momentum into a movement and then having an impact
01:12:55.15 Taylor Kruse And you know we take that kind of thing for granted.
01:12:56.31 Tony Fowler we take that kind of thing granted
01:12:58.14 Taylor Kruse you know The same piece same goes for sprinting right?
01:12:59.02 Tony Fowler Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:13:00.92 Taylor Kruse You could accidentally forget to sprint for 30 years.
01:13:01.21 Tony Fowler you could accidentally forget to sprint for thirty years
01:13:04.98 Taylor Kruse You know people do it all the time. People do it all the time.
01:13:07.38 Tony Fowler yeah people do it all the time i mean you could you could just go to the grocery store and point at most people most adults and they probably haven't run a sprint since high school
01:13:08.28 Taylor Kruse I mean you could you could just go to the grocery store and point at most people most adults and they probably haven't run a sprint since high school. You know and and that means you're incredibly deficient in a certain receptor stimulus.
01:13:16.57 Tony Fowler you know and and that means you're incredibly deficient in a certain receptor stimulus in
01:13:22.38 Taylor Kruse And that is why sometimes when you become deficient like that eventually your brain just tags certain proprioceptive input is threatening.
01:13:23.74 Tony Fowler that is why sometimes when you become deficient like that eventually your brain just tags certain proprioceptive input is threatening because you're just not doing it anymore and it's not as welcome if you know what i mean because those types of things carry a little bit higher risk right faster movements know more more plyometric kind of you know input and
01:13:35.06 Taylor Kruse because you're just not doing it anymore and it's not as welcomed if you know what I mean because those types of things carry a little bit higher risk right? Faster movements you know more plyometric kind of you know input and yeah it's another reason why we got to be careful that we don't get deficient in certain certain things with movement.
01:13:51.42 Tony Fowler yeah it's another reason why we gotta to be careful that we don't get deficient in certain certain things with movement That's right. And I would wager that that a larger percentage of people who are messaging you about tennis elbow or golfer's elbow or whatever it is are also not training as much.
01:14:13.05 Taylor Kruse Yep.
01:14:16.13 Taylor Kruse Yep. is Absolutely.
01:14:18.20 Tony Fowler I would just i would just make that wager.
01:14:20.98 Taylor Kruse Absolutely. Some of them are probably honestly not exercising at all um at least much.
01:14:22.03 Tony Fowler Some of them are probably honestly not exercising at all at least much.
01:14:27.77 Taylor Kruse a lot of the a lot of the folks I've talked to kind of fall into the category of like they tell me well they're an active individual.
01:14:28.12 Tony Fowler lot of the A lot of the folks I've talked to kind of fall into the category of like they tell me well they're an active individual but there's no kind of framework to their fitness.
01:14:35.51 Taylor Kruse But there's no kind of framework to their fitness. Fitness for them is just sort of making sure they're being an active having an active lifestyle which is good.
01:14:40.58 Tony Fowler Fitness for them is just sort of making sure they're being an active having an active lifestyle which is good. That's great yeah.
01:14:47.80 Taylor Kruse But it's it's very easy to miss out on these other types of movement that you need.
01:14:47.99 Tony Fowler but it's it's very easy to miss out on these other types of movement that you need.
01:14:52.84 Taylor Kruse And you know the use it or lose it principle is a real thing.
01:14:53.10 Tony Fowler And you know the use it or lose it principle is a real.
01:14:57.24 Taylor Kruse If that's the only neurology you could you ever learned that's good.
01:14:57.61 Tony Fowler If that's the only neurology you could you ever learn. And
01:15:01.22 Taylor Kruse That's good neurology. The use it or lose it principle is is real. And so we we have to keep exposing ourselves to to variety variety of movement right?
01:15:05.05 Tony Fowler and so we we have to keep exposing ourselves to to a variety of movement right?
01:15:11.33 Taylor Kruse um Enough that our brain decides it's it's worthy to keep investing energy resources into keeping these tissues alive and healthy.
01:15:12.41 Tony Fowler Enough that our brain decides it's it's worthy to keep investing energy resources into keeping these tissues alive and healthy
01:15:24.95 Tony Fowler Awesome. Did you have any other nuggets of wisdom for the...
01:15:30.03 Taylor Kruse Yeah I'm just looking at my my bullets here that I wanted to hit. and let me let me There's two things here that I think I could talk about pretty quickly.
01:15:40.95 Tony Fowler pretty quickly and this is more for
01:15:41.30 Taylor Kruse And this is more for. people who have gone through our courses and our students who are kind of really familiar with the terminology PMRF pontomedullary reticular formation all right?
01:15:44.22 Tony Fowler people who have gone through our course and our students who are kind of really familiar with the terminology p m r s onto medullaryreticular formation
01:15:53.38 Taylor Kruse That's when we start talking about the brainstem.
01:15:53.67 Tony Fowler that's when we start talking about the brainstem and tendon issues you could also kind of fit into this PMRF.
01:15:57.53 Taylor Kruse And tendon issues you could also kind of fit into this PMRF. ah When there's a PMRF issue sometimes because of the...
01:16:05.69 Tony Fowler When there's a PMRF issue sometimes because of the I guess we would say changes in muscle tone that happen with the PMRF because it's largely involved in helping to calibrate muscle tone.
01:16:11.16 Taylor Kruse ah I guess we would say changes in muscle tone that happen with the PMRF because it's largely involved in helping to calibrate muscle tone. You could meet an individual who tells you they have like a one-sided pain history where let's say a lot of their tendon complaints are on one side of the body.
01:16:20.93 Tony Fowler You could meet an individual who tells you they have like a onesided pain history where let's say a lot of their tendon complaints are on one side of the body
01:16:30.52 Taylor Kruse that might make you think of the PMRF and we've got specific you know training that we can do to start to to go after that.
01:16:30.78 Tony Fowler that might make you think of the pmrf and leave that specific you know training that we can do to start to to go after that.
01:16:37.82 Taylor Kruse you You could also see bilateral tendon issues that are being more mediated by a bilateral PMRF pattern.
01:16:38.14 Tony Fowler You could also see bilateral tendon issues that are being more mediated by a bilateral PMRF pattern.
01:16:45.43 Taylor Kruse So these are just things to keep in mind.
01:16:45.68 Tony Fowler so these are just things to keep in mind.
01:16:47.61 Taylor Kruse you know There's no absolutes here but um yeah remember the brainstem is going to be big for setting the tone for muscles and people that have PMRF
01:16:47.93 Tony Fowler You know there's no absolutes here. But yeah you remember the brainstem is going to be big for setting the tone for muscles and people that have PMRF issues often will have more like
01:16:58.68 Taylor Kruse issues often will have more like repetitive kind of overuse type strain injuries on the side that they have the PMRF dysfunction.
01:17:04.18 Tony Fowler overuse type strain injuries on the side that they have the PMRF dysfunction. That makes a ton of sense.
01:17:12.31 Taylor Kruse Yeah and the last one here that I wanted to at least mention
01:17:12.60 Tony Fowler Yeah. And the last one here that I wanted to at least mention because sometimes people are in a situation where like all these training ideas are great but they're just in too much pain right now to kind of progress into them.
01:17:15.74 Taylor Kruse Because sometimes people are in a situation where like all these training ideas are great but they're just in too much pain right now to kind of progress into them. And it can be hard to find a entry point especially with you know really significant pain.
01:17:24.92 Tony Fowler It can be hard to find a entry point especially with you know really significant pain. And you know we didn't even get into it but like
01:17:31.32 Taylor Kruse And you know we didn't even get into it but like stress fractures are an overuse type injury too.
01:17:34.26 Tony Fowler stress fractures are an overuse type injury too. and So people who are dealing with stress fractures may have to
01:17:37.34 Taylor Kruse right And so people who are dealing with stress fractures may have to have a different game plan at first right with ah with what they're doing.
01:17:40.98 Tony Fowler have a different game plan at first with with what they're doing but
01:17:44.76 Taylor Kruse But I wanted to mention the idea of aquatic exercise for those people.
01:17:45.78 Tony Fowler i wanted to mention the idea of aquatic exercise for those people
01:17:50.39 Taylor Kruse Because aquatic exercise is amazing for so in some instances and often almost never fails as an entry point when a person is in pain.
01:17:50.65 Tony Fowler cause aquatic exercise is amazing in some instances and often almost never fails as an entry point when a person is in pain
01:18:00.89 Taylor Kruse and they can't wait they can't do as much weight-bearing without risk and without increasing pain.
01:18:01.18 Tony Fowler and they can't wait they can't do as much weight bearing without risk and without increasing pain.
01:18:07.42 Taylor Kruse So you can go exercise in the pool in the swimming pool and you could go shallow end you can go deep end.
01:18:07.74 Tony Fowler So you can go exercise in the pool in swimming pool. And you could shallow end you can go deep end.
01:18:14.58 Taylor Kruse I have a whole my background comes from the Burdenko method which is ah a land and a water technique for just general conditioning and and also rehab.
01:18:14.84 Tony Fowler I have a whole my background comes from the Burdenko method which is ah a land and water technique for just general conditioning and and also rehab.
01:18:26.10 Taylor Kruse So one of the things that we do in the Burdenko method that was taught to me is deep water exercise where you wear flotation around your waist.
01:18:26.49 Tony Fowler So one of the things that we do in the Burdenko method that was taught to me is deep water exercise where you wear flotation around your waist.
01:18:34.97 Taylor Kruse And sometimes you have other tools like foam barbells and stuff that also give buoyancy.
01:18:35.26 Tony Fowler And sometimes you have other tools like foam barbells and stuff that also give buoyancy.
01:18:39.67 Taylor Kruse And it's really cool because you can go into the deep water and you can exercise in many cases in the vertical position which is nice.
01:18:40.03 Tony Fowler And it's really cool because you can go into the deep water and you can exercise in many cases in the vertical position which is nice.
01:18:48.15 Taylor Kruse And you can go through different mobility exercises.
01:18:48.44 Tony Fowler And you can go through different mobility exercises.
01:18:50.59 Taylor Kruse you can You can do a lot with that buoyancy attached to you.
01:18:50.84 Tony Fowler You can do a lot with that buoyancy attached to you.
01:18:55.86 Taylor Kruse And it's very um it's just a nice feeling.
01:18:56.15 Tony Fowler And it's very it's just a nice feeling. yeah It's a great way to do like whole body exercise usually without exacerbating symptoms.
01:19:00.20 Taylor Kruse It's a great way to do like whole body exercise usually without exacerbating symptoms because the water is such a unique medium to move in.
01:19:06.49 Tony Fowler Because the water is such a unique medium to move in.
01:19:09.75 Taylor Kruse As you're moving your body through the water you're getting a little bit of resistance which is useful but you're also getting assistance from the water.
01:19:10.04 Tony Fowler As you're moving your body through the water you're getting a little bit of resistance which is useful. But you're also getting assistance from the water and also support because you've got the pressure.
01:19:20.09 Taylor Kruse and also support because you've got the pressure against your body from the water coming from all directions.
01:19:25.72 Tony Fowler yeah against your body from the water coming from all directions
01:19:29.78 Taylor Kruse Some even say you've got um good kind of axial loading like traction happening through the spine when you exercise in a vertical position in the water because you have buoyancy kind of meeting gravity.
01:19:30.16 Tony Fowler Some even say you've got good kind of axial loading like traction happening through the spine when you're exercising vertical position in the water because you have buoyancy kind of meeting gravity.
01:19:43.79 Taylor Kruse you're not weightless per se.
01:19:44.04 Tony Fowler You're not like weightless per se.
01:19:45.95 Taylor Kruse Gravity still exists but you have buoyancy.
01:19:46.20 Tony Fowler gravity still exists but you have buoyancy and especially when you kind of go up and down
01:19:48.94 Taylor Kruse And especially when you kind of go up and down in the deep water you're getting this kind of tractioning effect.
01:19:51.74 Tony Fowler in the deep water you're getting
01:19:53.96 Taylor Kruse can be quite quite good for a lot of people.
01:19:54.01 Tony Fowler be quite quite good for a lot of people
01:19:56.82 Taylor Kruse i don't think it's the it's not the end-all be-all in terms of all your training has to be done in the water.
01:19:57.40 Tony Fowler I don't think it's the – it's not the end-all be-all in terms of all your training has to be done in the water.
01:20:03.75 Taylor Kruse I look at it as more of an entry point when you're dealing with a pain issue so that you don't have to give up moving.
01:20:03.97 Tony Fowler I look at it as more of an entry point dealing with a pain issue so that you don't have to give up moving.
01:20:10.42 Taylor Kruse you can still move and therefore that's super valuable versus hey people are told all the time if you get a diagnosis of some sort of um overuse repetitive motion type injury what does the doctor tell you?
01:20:10.71 Tony Fowler You can still move and therefore that's super valuable versus hey people are told all the time that you get a diagnosis. of some sort of overuse repetitive motion type injury what does the doctor tell you Take 12 weeks off.
01:20:24.05 Taylor Kruse All right stop moving.
01:20:25.81 Tony Fowler Yeah.
01:20:26.02 Taylor Kruse Yep.
01:20:26.87 Tony Fowler might be broken
01:20:27.06 Taylor Kruse Yeah take some ibuprofen. Let's immobilize you and let's let it heal.
01:20:29.39 Tony Fowler let's immobilize and let's let it he let what he
01:20:32.20 Taylor Kruse Well let what heal? There might not be any healing that needs to take place right? It's just there's so many factors that go into it. Why would you not want to move?
01:20:40.11 Tony Fowler Very nice. Very nice.
01:20:41.20 Taylor Kruse This is where the water comes in right?
01:20:41.75 Tony Fowler this is where the water comes in
01:20:43.55 Taylor Kruse Now you can move.
01:20:43.61 Tony Fowler now you can move you can do it safely
01:20:44.35 Taylor Kruse You can do it safely. You can do it with support.
01:20:46.30 Tony Fowler do it with support you can do it even with resistance right the water offers all those unique things
01:20:46.75 Taylor Kruse You can do it even with resistance right? The water offers all those unique things. So I always try to mention it occasionally because for some specific issues it can be fantastic.
01:20:52.02 Tony Fowler so i always try to mention it occasionally because for some specific issues it can be fantastic very nice very nice
01:21:06.42 Tony Fowler So yeah a lot for people to chew on and a lot of ah I think great leads if someone is dealing with this themselves or if they have a client. um you know you've got You've got some leads that you can go chase down and see if if you can figure out you know what it what it is that's actually causing the pain and therefore what can you do to make it better.
01:21:22.26 Taylor Kruse For sure.
01:21:29.14 Taylor Kruse For sure. It's funny when we when we talk about like these specific kinds of issues and I start thinking about the different tools that we could use to affect them.
01:21:37.46 Tony Fowler to affect them
01:21:38.70 Taylor Kruse It's kind of funny for me because as I think through it a lot of times it ends up being the same list for everything.
01:21:39.10 Tony Fowler funny for me because i think through a lot of times it ends up being the same list of everything Sure.
01:21:44.02 Taylor Kruse And I'm like hmm interesting. I'm glad because that means I found really useful tools.
01:21:47.64 Tony Fowler that means i found really useful tools
01:21:50.49 Taylor Kruse But there's it's like if you just practice the basics and you do it with you know consistency and intent you're gonna hear me repeat myself over and over again that joint mobility for the whole body is amazing.
01:21:50.74 Tony Fowler but there's it's like if you just practice the basic and you do it with you know consistency and intent you're gonna hear me repeat myself over and over again that joint mobility for the whole body amazing
01:22:04.98 Taylor Kruse And it's gonna solve a lot of your issues.
01:22:05.39 Tony Fowler it's going to solve a lot of your issues and then add speed variability to your joint mobility and
01:22:06.34 Taylor Kruse And then add speed variability to your joint mobility. And that's gonna solve more issues and get involved in learning the neuromechanics that we teach so you can do mobility for your nerves and throw in a breathing exercise.
01:22:10.19 Tony Fowler that's going to solve more issues and get involved in learning the neuro mechanics that we teach so you can mobility for your nerves and in a breathing exercise you know they's so like
01:22:19.41 Taylor Kruse And you know they're so like it's like the same repetitive thing over and over.
01:22:21.34 Tony Fowler the same repetitive thing over and over.
01:22:23.33 Taylor Kruse And yeah we might tweak it
01:22:23.58 Tony Fowler And yeah we might tweak it.
01:22:25.02 Taylor Kruse We might tweak it and you might find that certain things are higher payoff than other things.
01:22:25.30 Tony Fowler We might tweak it. You might find that certain things are higher payoff than other things.
01:22:29.14 Taylor Kruse And that's why we encourage people to keep assessing and reassessing so that you don't have to take my word for it or feel like you have to do everything.
01:22:29.38 Tony Fowler And that's why we encourage people to keep assessing and reassessing so that you don't have to take my word for it or feel like you have to do everything.
01:22:38.90 Taylor Kruse You can just kind of assess reassess find the the exercises that are helping you for your goal and then start there.
01:22:39.26 Tony Fowler You can just kind of assess reassess find the the exercises that are helping you for your goal and then start there.
01:22:46.09 Taylor Kruse That's the key.
01:22:46.13 Tony Fowler That's the key. Mm-hmm.
01:22:51.99 Taylor Kruse All right there it is.
01:22:52.43 Tony Fowler All right there it is.
01:22:52.79 Taylor Kruse I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and I hope that you'll head over to the YouTube channel and and check some of this stuff out.
01:22:53.06 Tony Fowler I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and I hope that you'll head over to the YouTube channel and and check some of this stuff out.
01:22:59.70 Taylor Kruse if you If you haven't done so yet I've got a lot of long form tutorials over there and I'm shooting more all the time and they can help you get started on some of these
01:23:00.01 Tony Fowler If you haven't done so yet I've got a lot of long-form tutorials over there and I'm shooting more all the time and they can help you get started on some of these some of these drills.
01:23:09.56 Taylor Kruse some of these drills. And remember um you can still even watch my free neuro masterclass.
01:23:10.71 Tony Fowler And remember you can still even watch my free Neuromaster class.
01:23:15.22 Taylor Kruse All right. That's available right now.
01:23:16.37 Tony Fowler That's available right now and that's where you can learn the assessment process.
01:23:17.46 Taylor Kruse And that's where you can learn the assessment process that I'm always talking about.
01:23:19.93 Tony Fowler that i'm always talking about so if you need to
01:23:21.52 Taylor Kruse So if you need to either refresh on that or you haven't heard about it yet watch the free masterclass.
01:23:23.39 Tony Fowler either refresh on that or you haven't heard about it yet watch the free masterclass.
01:23:27.13 Taylor Kruse You'll pick up some neat neuro tools there too.
01:23:27.61 Tony Fowler pick up some neat neuro tools there too.
01:23:29.81 Taylor Kruse But the whole point of that masterclass is to teach people how to assess and reassess so that you can begin the process.
01:23:30.31 Tony Fowler But the whole point of that masterclass is to teach people how to assess and reassess so that you can begin the process right?
01:23:36.69 Taylor Kruse Right. Because in the end to me it's like
01:23:37.51 Tony Fowler Because in the end to me it's like
01:23:39.45 Taylor Kruse What's more important than even the exercises is actually the process so that you can make good decisions as you move through it.
01:23:39.73 Tony Fowler what's more important than even the exercises is the process so that you can make the decisions as you move through it that's typically in the long term what you know gets a person from where they are now to you know having success with overcoming some kind of pain issue.
01:23:46.53 Taylor Kruse That's typically in the long term what you know gets a person from where they are now to you know having success with overcoming some kind of pain issue. So I hope you do that.
01:23:55.77 Tony Fowler So I hope you do that.
01:23:56.70 Taylor Kruse If you guys would be so kind to hit us up with a review on the podcast that really helps.
01:23:57.27 Tony Fowler If you guys would be so kind to hit us up with a review on the podcast that that really helps.
01:24:03.01 Taylor Kruse Thank you all to you guys who have left a review.
01:24:03.29 Tony Fowler Thank you all to um you guys who have left a review.
01:24:06.81 Taylor Kruse It means a lot to us.
01:24:07.09 Tony Fowler It means a lot to us and thanks for your support on the podcast.
01:24:07.81 Taylor Kruse And thanks for your support on the podcast. Thanks for listening today.
01:24:10.33 Tony Fowler Thanks for listening today and we'll be back soon.
01:24:11.32 Taylor Kruse And we'll be back soon.
